You have devoted more than 35 years of your life to the Metropolitan Opera. Your life’s journey is a perfect illustration of a true success story created through hard work, patience, determination, faith, will power, and total commitment—qualities singers themselves need in building a career. Did you have a vision of your future when you started working at the Met?
I had a business prior to working at the Met, and I decided that I wanted to build scenery for Broadway shows. And somebody said, “Well, the best scenery in the world is built at the Metropolitan Opera.” So I said, “OK. How do I do that? How do I get to the Met?” The only way was to take an apprentice test at the union. I took it, scored rather high, and ended up going to the Met. So, I did not have a vision. I mean, I had a different vision, let us say. Then, as I became more and more involved in and familiar with the Met operation and with live opera performances—I was really taken by them—it’s hard for me to say when, but at some point during those early years, I decided that this was where I really felt I could make a difference. Probably in the late 60’s, I thought that if I worked my way through every area and learned a lot about the organization, it would be possible that—leaving politics aside—I would be able to run the Met someday.
Where did this desire to succeed come from?
I think the question with any young person—I was young at the time—is what they want to do with their lives. Do you want to be involved in something—as far as work—where you can make a contribution to an organization such as the Met or any performing arts organization, particularly if you are a performer, and are you prepared to go through the early stages of that career without really making any money? You also have to make the decision: do you want to go out and make a lot of money in this world, or do you want to do things? So, I made that decision. Everybody has to face that sooner or later.
What kept you going through the various behind-the-scenes struggles for power in the Met’s history?
Actually, I didn’t feel the struggle, because, as I was working, learning, and doing things, the struggle wasn’t in the forefront at all, it was back somewhere else. I was enjoying what I was doing, so, in fact, it wasn’t a struggle.
In general, what is the secret formula behind your staying power, and how would it apply to a singer’s career?
I think it’s determination. In the case of a singer…if I was the singer, there would be no hope, because there’s no talent. The question is: does the singer have the natural talent and ability first? That’s something that they have to find out. Not that those can’t be developed and improved, but there should exist a basic, God-given talent. Once they know that they do have the ability to succeed, then it’s a matter of having the drive to do it, and that’s the most difficult part, because there are a lot of disappointments in life. I’ve had many in my career, and I’m sure singers have more, because in the case of a singer’s career, if you audition for something and are not accepted, that disappointment could really set you back if you don’t believe in yourself. So, having a belief that you can succeed is probably the most important.
Your reputation for being direct and tolerating no nonsense did not come with power; you have always been frank in an institution which is a mini-political world in itself, and in which frankness can work against you. However, it seems to have worked for you. How so?
Yes, I am straightforward and frank, but I do have the sense to be cautious at times. I think it’s a question of balance. I don’t run around just giving my opinions all over the place to people who don’t want to have them and wouldn’t understand them anyway. So, you have to be somewhat political. I guess my reputation is that I’m not. You need to be considerate of other people. I think there is a combination of politics and consideration, and I’m very considerate when dealing with others, although I’m very straightforward.
Do you sing at all?
Actually, I did a few years back, but I don’t today. I do hum a lot, and there’s always some melody or something in my head, but I don’t sing…Well, you wouldn’t call it singing!
Were you acquainted with opera before you started working at the Met?
My mother and my grandmother adored opera, being of Italian heritage, and in both cases, they very much wanted to hear opera. In the case of my grandmother, those were the days when we had the old record players—the victrola—long before your time. The one record that my grandmother had was Cavalleria Rusticana, which she played forever. Of course, she was Sicilian. So, I was familiar because of my grandmother and my mother. My father was busy making a living, didn’t have a lot of time, and was not an opera fan.
As general manager of one of the most important opera houses in the world, you are responsible for all aspects of the Met’s life, a gargantuan task. Nevertheless, you take the time to attend rehearsals and performances, and especially to establish a good communication with the artists. Why is that important to you?
First of all, knowing your product in any venture is very important. I’m very involved with what we produce, so I attend rehearsals, I go to performances; I want to see how singers sing. I won’t accept hearing it from someone else. I want to hear it firsthand. I’m very involved. As far as my relationship with singers, I have a responsibility to make sure that they have the best atmosphere in which to perform. That’s why I also pay attention to what’s happening on the stage. Having a relationship with them is important, because they need to feel supported by the head of the theater. That makes it easier for them to perform. I send every one of them a note when they first start out at the Met at the beginning of the season, letting them know that if there are any problems, they can either contact my assistants or give me a call if I can be of some help. That’s part of the job.
The Met is no doubt one of the most coveted opera houses in the world. Singers dream of performing on its stage. Yet this American opera house seems so inaccessible to professionally capable American singers who work regionally, even nationally, and have a great deal of experience as well as good reviews. How does such a singer gain access to auditioning for the Met, and on what criteria are singers selected? In general, what are you looking for, in terms of “package”: voice, looks, experience (in the US and/or abroad), age, cultural diversity, management, diplomas…
First, how does one get an audition for the Met? You make a phone call. You call the Met and, believe it or not, if the singer has the appropriate background, someone in the artistic department would have a discussion with them. They’d send in information about themselves, and I think, in most cases, everybody with appropriate background is heard, as far as an audition. [Editor’s note: please do not request an audition at the Met unless you truly have the “appropriate background.” This would include several principal roles in the equivalent of “B” houses within the last few years.] Countrywide, we have the National Council auditions—I don’t know how many people audition every year—but that goes on all year round, and then in the spring, the winners chosen from each district come here, and there is a semi-final followed by a final. The important thing is: the singer has to be ready to sing at the Met. They must have performing experience outside. In certain cases, if they know their repertoire extremely well, and they’re coached well…I think that enables them to come to the Metropolitan Opera. In most cases, it’s important for artists to develop a career—whether it be in Europe or in other American houses—before coming to the Met, only because coming to the Met can be a real shock to the system, and it’s important that they are ready for that. Audiences are very unforgiving. An artist makes their debut—and I see this quite a bit today— wonderful talent but not really ready, and unfortunately, it’s a major setback in their career. That’s why it’s important that they go through the audition procedure. Also, there is the possibility of working with coaches at the Met, and those coaches could be of great assistance to the singers.
What about looks? Does physical appearance make a difference in hiring singers?
Today, you’ll find that many companies will not hire people if they don’t have a certain look. I mean, there are many American singers that aren’t hired in Europe at all, because of their size. Although, if you have a glorious voice, as we well know, and you really have a lot of talent, you will sing no matter what your size is, and you can sing at the Met. But I think today things are changing. Audiences want to watch attractive people with attractive voices, rather than just one of the two.
How does one get more information about the Lindemann Young Artists Program? Direct inquiry doesn’t seem to help, and there is no advertising for it. Can one audition directly for this program?
The Lindemann Young Artists Development Program is something you can audition for directly. As a matter of fact, I should find out more information from the head of that program and give it to you, so the people can be made aware of it.
[see accompanying article]
What about experience in Europe? Is that more valuable than experience in the US?
Well, I think the best-trained singers in the world today are Americans, quite frankly. However, experience anywhere makes a difference. If it’s in European houses, there are certain things you can learn there that you might not learn here. It’s important to have experience. That’s the key to a career. I don’t suggest over-singing, but the more you sing in different places, the more you have the opportunity to learn and become better.
Does age matter?
If it doesn’t affect what the singer can do, it doesn’t matter. If they have the talent, the ability, whether they are x years old or y, I don’t think it really makes any difference.
You have made opera much more accessible to a larger audience, managing to maintain an equilibrium between employing star singers who are box-office attractions and at the same time, reaching out to a broader audience through various programs. Developing the “Met titles,” establishing a student discount program, and starting an opera education program for young children have been major steps in attracting a wider audience. How do you plan to continue this expansion?
With the student discount program, we have been active in New York City. Honor students at the City University of New York have a cultural passport program where students have an opportunity to come to some rehearsals, and they have discount tickets. We’re reaching out more and more beyond the New York City schools, to universities and colleges.
What would you do to make opera more appealing to future generations?
You mean it’s not appealing now?
Well, it’s more so than before, but I still see a lot of people in my age group and younger who are still intimidated by opera.
It’s interesting…you know, we did A Midsummer Night’s Dream last year, and I was amazed at the number of young people here. It was really something! What’s happening is that there are more young people coming to the contemporary works. So, I think what we can do is enlarge our repertoire and try to balance it in a way that it appeals to varied groups.
What is your prediction for the future of opera in general?
I think it looks very bright. It’s expanding even in today’s times when the economy is very difficult. There’s been some setback after September 11th, but I don’t think opera has been affected the way museums have been.
You have a reputation for not tolerating diva behavior…
What is diva behavior?
Well, you know…tantrums, refusals to comply with aspects of the production…
If somebody refuses to come in or does not show up for rehearsals, and it affects the artistic product and the other singers, of course I can’t tolerate it. I mean, it’s not fair to those that are here. I don’t have any problems with [the idea of] a “diva,” but there are certain rules and regulations; there’s a certain way you have to work with your colleagues. I find that most of the very good, competent singers do that. Now you will have, occasionally, a singer who has a lot of problems…there’s one specifically that we had an unfortunate situation with a few years back, where she wouldn’t work with her colleagues and she wouldn’t come to rehearsals on time. So, that affects the product. And if it’s going to affect the product, then I can’t let it go.
The Mini-Met was an idea conceived in the early 70’s that had a short life, and in the early 90’s, James Levine decided to revive it. Can you elaborate on the Mini-Met and its purpose?
Jimmy once said that he’d love to have a small facility to perform operas that this house is too large for. But—quite frankly—one, it’s not something that we can afford to do; and two, given what we are doing with our orchestra and chorus in Carnegie Hall and elsewhere, our schedule is very tight. So I don’t think the Mini-Met in the sense that it was conceived back in the 70’s is going to happen, because I don’t believe there is a need for it at this point.
In your opinion, what distinguishes the great singers from the good singers?
Their greatness! If you look at the great singers today, one, they have natural talent, two, they have a dedication, and three: you can go to a performance knowing that they are very secure in what they’re singing. They don’t take on roles they’re not sure of, and they give you the best performance they can give. I think that’s what makes a great singer. There are a lot of singers today that are very good singers, but I don’t think they have the natural talent of the great singers. It’s like a great ball player versus a good ball player. It’s a question of talent. Now, there are ball players in baseball, for example, where the best is maybe not the most talented, because of hard work and determination. It works the same anywhere. However, I guess if your vocal cords do not allow you to have that range and be able to sing the way one expects of a great singer, then I’m afraid you’re doomed. Talent is, of course, very important, and so is how the talent is used. There are a lot of very promising young singers who take on the wrong repertoire and do things that are too heavy early on. So they really shorten their career and never become the great singer they should.
You book singers years in advance. Is there a fear that maybe in three or four years, a singer will not be…
It’s not a fear. There’s always a consideration. When you’re booking singers, you have to guess as to what you think is going to happen in their career three or four years out. Most times you’re right, and sometimes you’re wrong. When you’re wrong, you then have to try to discuss it with them and find a reasonable resolution, and that’s not easy.
Do chorus members ever become soloists?
There was one chorus member, recently, who sang some solo roles and then moved on and went elsewhere. As a general practice, no. But it happens on occasion.
Is it true that if you sing in the chorus, you are labeled as a chorus singer, and then it’s hard to escape that?
There might be some truth to that, I would think.
Does graduating from any particular conservatory or school really matter in auditioning?
No.
Do you ever attend musical events and “discover” new talent?
Last year I was all over Europe attending musical events. What happens today is that we have a talent scout in Europe, Eva Wagner, who is being considered to run Bayreuth. She works for the Met as a consultant. So she’s seeing a lot of things in Europe. We have an artistic staff that attends events as well. Is it likely that I would be the first person to see a singer and say, “Hey, Sally or Jonathan or Jimmy, you ought to really hear this singer?” Probably not, because there’s a big network. I mean, we’re normally pretty well aware of most young singers coming on the scene and singing in European houses or here. However, it could very well be that I would go hear a singer and say, “Well, maybe we should try this singer in some different repertoire.” But no, I’m not the frontline person searching for talent.
Is there any hope for an unmanaged singer in today’s opera market?
“Managed” meaning by…?
An agent.
Well, it depends. There are agents who are really just booking agents, and there are agents that are managers who help and guide the singer. That’s the kind of assistance a singer needs. They need somebody who’s knowledgeable—who has experience—because to do it all oneself, I think, is virtually impossible. An agent who manages the career will also protect the singer, so the singer doesn’t pick the wrong repertory based on their voice. In fact, not too long ago, we had an audition of a singer who was singing absolutely all the wrong repertoire; it was much too heavy for her. And we mentioned that to the agent. It’s a very difficult situation today, because you have to find the right person. Take, for example, an American singer, Rise Stevens—her husband managed her career. Fortunately for her, he was very knowledgeable and spent his whole life doing that. It’s important to have somebody really committed to the singer to help them, and not just get a commission every time the singer sings.
A common question of Classical Singer readers is about discrimination in hiring musicians and singers. How much of a role does EEO play in this process?
It’s equal for everyone, on the basis of talent. First of all, in the case of our musicians, they audition behind a screen. The shocking thing was that, for years, women never played the French horn. Then we had auditions not too many years ago, and the winner was a woman. Now, if you look at the Met orchestra, you’ll see we have more women—I think we have three French horn players—than we’ve ever had. You’ll find that in the chorus today, we have more and more African-American singers than we’ve ever had before, because there are more and more that are auditioning for those positions. A few years back, they said, “Well, the Met doesn’t employ any African-American tenors.”
That was one of the questions too.
It’s very simple. If they’re there, if they come to audition, and they’re good, we’ll hire them. It’s got nothing to do with where a singer comes from, or with the color of their skin, or if they’re part of a minority or not. If you look today, Ramon Vargas, who is Mexican, is performing a lot at the Met. Why does Argentina produce so many tenors? There are a lot of Argentinean tenors around at present. I mean, if you are talented in every sense of the word, and you decide to pursue a career and put yourself out there, race or nationality doesn’t make any difference. If you can sing, you can sing.
What exactly are your responsibilities at the Met?
I’m responsible for whatever we produce at the Met. There are people who make decisions up the line. I don’t decide on a singer that goes into the Young Artists program. We have an entire artistic staff. But, what we produce and what you see on the stage, ultimately, I have to approve. And then my responsibility is to make sure the place runs correctly and that we don’t have big losses so that we can stay in business. It’s important that we have a balanced repertoire so we can sell tickets…we budget about a ninety percent box office. So, ultimately, as Harry Truman says, the buck stops here!
