THE AGE ISSUE : Classical Singer Poll

·Age discrimination is illegal–but not in the field of classical singing! Any thoughts on this?

·Have you noticed any difference in how too-young, or too-old singers are treated in various parts of the world?

·Have you been discriminated against, or seen age discrimination?

-Are you worried about how getting older will affect your career?

·Do you think singers should consider age-reduction cosmetic surgery? Do you know anyone who has had this surgery done? If so, please ask them to go to the forum!

·Music theater and popular singers think nothing of cosmetic procedures to keep looking young, thin and trim. Why do classical singers seem to avoid these ideas?

·Do you have experience with singers lying about their age?

·Do you know anyone who changed their birth certificates, etc.?

·Ever seen anyone ever been found out, that you know?

·Have you noticed any difference in audience reaction to similar talent in older singers vs. younger singers?

·Ever seen anyone (particularly a woman) start a career late in life successfully? ·Anyone you know sued for age discrimination?

·Do you think it is legal to be asked your age on applications, or at auditions? What clever answers have you heard singers use to avoid answering?

·What do you consider to be the average age-range of professional singers with full-time careers? Is it different for men and women? Why?

·What are your thoughts on the optimal time to get a career started?

·Any ideas on how to fix problems in our field on this topic?

If I see someone come in who has some age on them and they are glowing and have their lights on, I’ll give them a chance. However, by the time a singer gets to a certain age with only limited success, it has been my view that their is a lot of bitterness in their face and I don’t want to put that on a stage. People come to see opera because it makes them feel better. Consequently, managers etc. have an obligation to put the most pleasant package up there. I someone is beautiful and yet cast an air of hardness and bitterness, …who wants to see that?

I only can speak from experience, and know that I was “too-young” for quite a while. I did Merola when I was 20, and have been patted on the head since then. I think that’s one reason why I moved to Europe – anyone who knew me, knew me as “that young thing” and didn’t take me seriously – always putting me in the “young” or “silver” cast or in the soubrette roles which are not really suited to me.

I know for a fact that age has been a factor in me NOT going on to the next round in the Met Competition (twice!) since “I could do it again” – it had nothing to do with whether or not I was the best singer in the competition. The first time I sang in the Met regionals in El Paso Texas, everyone but me and one older girl sounded like a mariachi singer. The other girl was OK, but no great shakes, but was a hometown girl, and this was her last year to be able to do the competition. Guess who won?

My only negative experience has been in people saying “OH, you have time, you’re so young” and not taking me seriously. Of course that’s over now that I’m pushing thirty! Usually it had impressed people that I was so developed as a singer at a young age. I think sometimes I won NATS in college not because I sang so great that day, but because I was a year younger than everyone in my category and they knew it and were impressed with my abilities for my age. (I ended up a year ahead when I won the high school division my sophomore year..)

Just people letting your age color their ears – they listen to you, thinking “greenhorn” and thus aren’t going to ever think you’re ready to do anything serious.

NO really, I think people do lie, especially women, because they think it’s more impressive they have the voice they do at a younger age, and age is always seen as a negative thing for women in our society. You can have Placido singing Parsifal, who should be a young man, but you probably wouldn’t have a 60-year old Kundry, since she’s supposed to be young. We’re willing to suspend belief for men’s age, but not women. Happens at the opera in the public – how many lovely younger ladies do you see with fat old men, but yet a beautiful young man even with a *beautiful* old woman would cause people to stare and cluck their tongues. Men are allowed to go to pot with age, women are expected to be gorgeous and YOUNG (i.e. childbearing) in order to be important. Makes me sick.

You get more lying about ages in the young artist category than anything, I’m sure. People that haven’t “made it” yet, but need to do something want to get into a program, but they’re only for “young people” – I personally know of two Chinese singers that were WAY past the age requirements of Merola that actually ended up in an Adler Fellowship with me. I don’t know if an exception was made or whether their birth certificates were changed…..

Change birth certificates, etc.?

I’ve only heard of this, especially in Russian, Chinese and Korean singers, but I don’t know about it in the US. I know of one mezzo-soprano who likes everyone to think she’s at least four years younger than she is. But it’s hard to pull off when you went to undergraduate with other people your age…. and they remember you! I don’t see how you could do it since most people ask for your passport as documentation for things.

Everyone thinks Cecilia Bartoli is this little young thing, but ask Jennie Larmore how old she thinks she really is – – she worked with her years ago, and said she was saying she was x-years old then… I think audiences give great respect to old, well-established singers who’ve had long careers. Just the fact that Dame Gwyneth sang like poopoo all evening here in Salzburg, but yet gets such a warm response plus flowers, tells me that people aren’t really clapping for her performance tonight, but her career over a lifetime. I don’t see anything wrong with that.

Jeffrey Wells started a little late, as did Gregory Kundy, if I remember well. I think it’s easier with men, because they don’t feel as if they’re up against the clock. Women however, feel that if they haven’t done something by the time they’re in their mid-thirties they should call it a day. I almost agree; it’s a shame, but I don’t think one can really expect to break into the business after that point as a woman. There’s too much competition. Marcelo Alvarez, a FABULOUS Argentinean tenor I just sang with in Milan (who’s making his Met debut soon, too!! Go see him – it’s a glorious voice with top for days) started late – but it’s a really exceptional voice, and he’s only around 36 or so now. He figured out his vocal technique and studied his ass off intensively for a few years, and then hit the road. Most people dawdle their youth away taking one coaching or one lesson a week.

I don’t think suing anyone is a great way to make friends or get a job. If they don’t want you, why push them into hiring you? Their loss. Only gives you a bad name as being a sore loser.

I don’t want to comment on this as I have an opinion that won’t be too popular. Sometimes I think it is warranted. I personally don’t want to see a 46 year old Zerlina…valid though it may be. Nor do I want to see a 27 year old Fillipo. I would be outraged at either. I know what you are talking about, and I sympathize. I just don’t have an popular opinion. I also think women take it bad on the old side and men on the young side. I literally had to grow a beard to hide my baby face so I could be taken seriously as a Verdi baritone.

Impresarios, Agents, General Directors, Conductors, etc…this letter is to you:

In the realm of AGE, the reality of choosing performers is that one needs to be sure s/he can do the task, in a greatly artistic manner. Freni & Pavarotti persevere in their 60’s. These days people are living longer and healthier lives. Many individuals are capable of working well into their 70’s. We, as singers, believe that if one is in good shape, and capable of performing our art, we should be allowed to do so. With longer lives, people sometimes change careers. If one is capable, why not start a singing career later in life? This seems obvious. But, perhaps the real reasons for this archaic AGEISM practice, have nothing to do with the performing ability. A great possibility for companies choosing the youngest singers could be the simple fact that young people are less likely to object when faced with all kinds of employment improprieties. They’ll put up with lousy wages, terrible conditions, unfair practices, etc., because he/she may not know any better. Younger performers are less likely to have strong musical ideas for which they’re willing to “fight”. Whereas an older, wiser person may not step aside when faced with these problems. A mature person is less likely to allow a manager or conductor to treat him/her as used tissue. Young singers don’t remain young. They grow older and are pushed out. Hence the company has no obligation to people based on seniority.

So, what do singers do when faced with AGEISM? Most of us lie about our age. Most of us have “doctored” a document or two. I find no harm in that. If one is capable of meeting the task, and the only reason one may not be hired is because of one’s age, then lying isn’t going to hurt anyone. When it comes to surgery, diet pills, etc., one has to weigh carefully the dangers involved. Yes many actors have gone that route…many look like zombies, or worse, have died from over-doses and/or addictions. AGE DISCRIMINATION LEADS TO THIS!

All in all, We’re really talking about ART and SURVIVAL here, aren’t we? I believe the more mature artist has much more to say. I find a seasoned performance so much more interesting. This is what the public really wants…GREAT ART!! For you to say they want to see younger singers on stage is not true. So I challenge the opera community…Why not reinfuse the ART? Hire those who have lived. Or, better yet…help us to create a new system of hiring, which will enable your survival, but encourage ours as well. Let’s have a new system that doesn’t discriminate against AGE. Let’s face it…history has shown over and over again, that oppressed people eventually rebel. Singers are fed up with their supremely difficult lives. We typically endure situations far worse than instrumentalists. Take a look at the forum on The Classical Singer Website. We seem to be moving toward a possible new unionization. I don’t think the opera community would be happy with this. It would mean the end of many smaller organizations, and a whole host of new problems for the larger companies. I challenge you to answer us through this publication. What can we do together to bring up the level of the ART and allow you and us to SURVIVE? Is a new, specialized union for all classical singers the only answer?

I am 43. I have a great career that is now approaching it’s 12th professional,Operatic season. (that’s 13 years…not counting the years I did professionaltheater AND community opera and lived on that which would add another fiveyears.) Last year looking for an agent I couldn’t get my foot in the door even thoughI had two years of contracts, a recording and a movie coming out because I wastoo old. My experience didn’t even give me the clout to have an agent hear me sing.

Too young singers are forgiven because they can go away and learn to correcttheir mistakes, be successful in another situation and then return to thescene of any problems, triumphant. Too old singers are just let go and neverheard from again.

I HAVE seen age discrimination. I myself have certain houses that have alwaysseen me as the old character performer, even when I was in my early thirties,and that will never change. But I have to admit, there is a problem withsingers who do not keep up their craft. There is a whole list of performerssinging at the MET and the big houses who have let themselves get fat, indulgein stupid “opera-isms” that may have been fresh for them once but are now justcliche, who do not keep up their vocalisms…in essence… once they make itthey stop working on it. And the worst part of all this is THAT THEY KNOW ITand their knowing it makes all the Diva stuff happen. all the neurosis come tosurface. There is no doubt that opera has joined the ranks of the “youth isall” media. But if you are going to play a 40 year old CARMEN or GIULETTA,you need to work as hard as Angela Bassett does for film, to keep all of your performing tools honed. Prime examples of this are Barbara Hendricks, Alfredo Kraus, Diana Soviero, Joyce Castle, there are more. Don’t quote me here butNeil Rosenshein is a PERFECT example of someone who has let age wear him down.If you don’t want to keep up the work, DO CONCERTS! To be in opera today, you have to be believable in the part from the first row.

Who wants to see a forty five year old Dalila? The worst part of this is anticipation anxiety. Wondering if you are hearing the start of a wobble, noticing that all the people who used to fawn on you because of your youth and or beauty are now looking at the kids in the young artists program.

As a forty something person I am only biding my time until I do it (cosmetic surgery). One thing that I think is imperative to keep up are your TEETH! I have noticedthat the most telling signs of age in a person are the shape and color oftheir teeth! Get rid of those years of coffee stains and have them bonded orveneered and you will wipe five years AT LEAST off of your age.

Do you know anyone who has had this surgery done? If so, please ask them to go to the forum and talk to singers anonymously.

Here is the thing about the people I know who have had this done. If it isdone to out of fear that they are getting old, it doesn’t work. The fear staysand keeps them as old inside as they looked before the surgery. The phrase”you look exactly the same as you did ten years ago!” doesn’t bring a smile totheir face but rather a panicked relief. You can’t have the surgery to bringback or create a career. It has to fit in the category of keeping all of yourskills updated. I think. I haven’t gone there yet so I am just guessing.

I did a show with a tenor who claimed to be 38. A chorusgirl got a crush on him and looked up his high school on the internet and found out he graduated in the early 70’s. He was sooooo busted and it was so stupid.

Drivers Licenses are easy to change. It doesn’t matter. If you have to change your driver’s license it is probably too late for you to be starting in opera.

The younger singer always has the potential to be the next Bartoli orDomingo. The older singer pretty much is where they are going to be vocally.There is less time from an agent’s view point, to rake in the dough from theolder singer and the potential is less likely that the older person will ever command superstar fees.

If you do big girl parts, the Wagner and Verdi roles, you have a chance. Particularly mezzos and particularly if you have a BIG voice. Dolora Zajick and Giulietta Simionata didn’t start early and Simionato didn’t make her MET debut until she was 38! Of course for guys, Peter Van Derrick had just turned 50 when he made his MET debut and Julian Patrick was 65!

-Do you think it is legal to be asked your age on applications, or at auditions?

It is NOT legal. Once you are hired, the only person who knows and who will blab if asked (this is a given) is the person who has your contract andpassport. In each company that is usually one or two persons and you shouldbribe them and be especially nice to them so they don’t give you away.

There are no clever answers. If someone is rude enough to ask you your age, they are going to be pissed off at “clever” answers. Depending on myconfidence level, “How dare you?” “As if!” “What? I could be your mother,okay?” Actually, what I do is look at them as if they did have their hand in the cookie jar, and shake my head and say, “No.”

Truth? Some sopranos last into their fifties with a lot of work and ingenuity:Freni, Greenawald, Soviero. The mezzo’s who do the non-glamour roles have thebest shot of singing until 60’s. The tenors….late forties early fifties.Bass and Bari’s can go later.

I believe you need to start a career by your late twenties. It takes at leastten years to season your voice into the roles that you will be doing for thenext twenty to fifteen years.

I don’t think it is a problem as much as it is a fact. We get old and wearen’t prepared for it. I think singers should have change of career planswhen they start their profession! Fatalistic? No. Practical. I am so angrythat I didn’t have the sense to start a retirement fund or IRA or 401K earlyon. We just think we can perform forever and the sad news is that no one isgoing to pay for a fifty year old Cherubino in a 1000 seat house when they canget a fledgling for half the price. It is sad but we can extend our careers byworking on our skills, having a healthy, well rounded life, and by creatingperforming opportunities that do not rely on the acceptance of our talent by aproducer. Do concerts, be in theater, volunteer to give a benefit recital fora worthy organization. Use the years of training and performing experience tobe creative in your own job creation. Use your down time to get honors andawards for yourself from your community. I am not kidding. Not only will this make you feel better but it makes you marketable. If you are still in yourforties it will help you feel like you have more control over your career!

Please note: Nothing is worse or sadder, than seeing an older performer desperate to prove that he still “gots it”, by recounting past successes. What matters is what you can give now. Look at yourself in the mirror and see yourself now and see how you want to market yourself. I have a baritone friendwho still saw himself as a dashing Escamillo with the same range in his late forties, as when he was thirty. But in the mirror and for the real world, he was a balding, graying guy who was having a hard time with the top. So, (this part is great!) – he let himself go grey, grew a neat grey beard and dropped all the high stuff out of his rep. What resulted is he went from Dashing Leading Man in a toupee with a forced top, to an INCREDIBLY Dashing older man, a benevolent father type, the general, the successful business man, the wealthy aristocrat, and he jump started his career all over again!

I think that is the key. Recognizing what we have and when we have it. Life is FULL of sexy voluptuous fifty year olds, vibrant youthful forty year olds. Our goal is to present what WE GOT to the public, not try to conceal things. We have to market the wonder that we are, not try to be what we are not. Hence, my Siebel is not a boy, but a full grown troubled man. My Carmen is not a 16 year old gypsy girl, but an experienced, worldly woman leader of a smuggling ring. My Favorite, is the worldly best loved courtesan of the King who is accustomed to the finest things in life and who has abandoned hopes of finding her true love.

We use who we ARE in theater. Theater reflects the world and so do we when we portray characters with WHO WE ARE! As long as we keep in good vocal and physical health, that means we should be able to play our favorite roles for a very long time!

Illegal — so?!? When have singers and performers in general not lied about their ages? In the beginning they up their age in order to be considered for more mature roles; then, as soon as reality hits and they start auditioning for training programs and competitions, they lower their age in order to compete with all the other singers who have altered their birth certificates similarly. (As far as I know, no one ever got caught or punished for doing it.)

Audiences and opera companies will forever be fickle and unpredictable. An oldie-but-goodie who can still sell tickets (well past his or her prime) is always welcomed with open arms, while the seasoned professional who might be having a rough spell can be dropped like a hot potato, banished from the business and forgotten in only one short season. The very promising newcomer or, God forbid, the “rising star” can shoot to the top of the charts (Recordings seem to be the determining factor these days!) only to sink into oblivion in less than ten years, largely because they are not nurtured and allowed to mature and become experienced professionals, possibly in lower profile venues and in a more reasonable length of time.

Opera singers who feel they need to undergo age-reduction cosmetic surgery to further their careers are only kidding themselves. Of course, it is certainly desirable that they need to at least sound like and/or look like the character that they hope to portray, but, in the long run, either one CAN sing or one CANNOT! Either the voice is still fresh and healthy or it is not–redecorating the package won’t really make that much difference. Maintaining the voice through regular voice lessons and coachings — not to mention daily practice sessions — in my opinion, would prove to be far more valuable. (Now, if looking younger will improve their outlook on life, their self esteem and perhaps their social lives, then, by all means, go for it!)

Many respectable singers and some rather outstanding ones got what might seem to be a late start on their careers — that is past the age of thirty. (Birgit Nilsson, if I remember my opera lore correctly, comes to mind as does Ben Heppner, now 41, who won the Met Auditions only ten years ago.) This does not by any means suggest that they suddenly sprang full-blown into the world of opera without having put in considerable effort — they were working on their craft and honing their vocal skills and artistry. For those singers who achieve success only after years of frustration and disappointment, it is their faith in themselves and in their talent along with sheer perseverance that eventually come through for them. Most European houses have North American singers on their rosters who, in many cases, simply as a last ditch effort, went over there and were fortunate enough to snag a house contract. These same singers have remained and made lives for themselves — happy to be performing and, at the same time, earning a darn good salary. The sad ones are those who simply never get their act together and who become bitter, unhappy souls.

When sponsoring organizations are doling out grant monies and awarding those oh so cherished places in the various young artist training programs, they need to know whether the singer is mature enough to be ready for the challenge that is being offered them or, on the other hand, whether their support might be better invested in someone who is younger but has potential for a greater future, simply because they have time on their side. No matter how great the voice or how tremendous the potential, the question that must be answered is, how much work still needs to be done? Is there still a reasonable amount of time for the promising but imperfect talent to work on technique and style, while at the same time polishing languages and learning how to act? Knowledge of the candidates age could be a crucial determining factor. Either, “Wow, look how accomplished they are for someone so young,” or, “What at fantastic voice, but what have they been doing for the last ten years?”

The majority successful singers begins vocal training in the late teens, achieves some form of professional credibility by the age of 30, and, provided that they are prudent and intelligent about their voices and the roles they perform, they are able to continue performing for 25 or more years, men usually somewhat longer than women. This is a sweeping generality, and there are, of course, literally hundreds, if not thousands, of exceptions.

I couldn’t possibly advise somebody about cosmetic surgery. That is a highly personal decision and can’t be made lightly. If a person has a serious problem, I would say “why not”. If you are a coloratura or a soubrette, age plays a bigger role than in other voice Faecher. My experience is that especially in smaller German houses where the directors aren’t particularly experienced, they tend to want “little girls” to be playing their little girls. Some directors and conductors haven’t noticed for instance that the orchestra in Hansel and Gretel is of major Wagner proportions. I have heard so many very young singers buried under that big sound. This makes me crazy, but there is not a whole lot you can do. If you are 35 and look 29 lie! It is my opinion it is nobody’s business anyway. If you get hired, the only people who see your passport are at the office where you get your work permit etc. Life as a soubrette has some sobering realities. If your voice doesn’t grow into the next Fach and you aren’t tiny and cute so that you can play young girls at 40 you must reckon with shorter career than other voice types. On the other hand, appearance is something that you can influence to a point. If you are over weight and aren’t singing Wagner like “Birgit”, lose weight. There is a glut of singers out there today and fat singers ( especially women) aren’t getting hired. On the whole for men, my experience is that age plays a smaller role. If you are selling yourself as a 35 year old Heldentenor though, you probably won’t be taken very seriously. An older Sarastro for instance, is a refreshing. The bottom line is “how are you singing?” and if you come to Germany, get your German together. Toi,toi toi.

Age discrimination should be illegal in all professions, including Classical Singing. It might be nice if the different levels of singers competed according to their level of talent and experience, not their age. Too many of us find the “big house voice” long after we are too old for the Met Audition. By then it is often too late–the directors are no longer interested.

I see a lot of other singers in their forties who seem to develop wobbles and other problems related to breath support. Many of them don’t seem to realize that they are wobbling or going flat–I have difficulty understanding that– I know the instant something is wrong (like if I am sick, or tired), and get really depressed until I know I am in top form again. If I ever develop a problem that I cannot fix, I will stop singing, and find some other rewarding musical career, like arts administration, or coaching. No problem.

If anyone has the inner need to have cosmetic surgery done, be they singer, lawyer, plumber or movie star, let them have it done. But if they are doing it solely for the purpose of misleading a director into thinking they are younger then the actually are, I think that is a big mistake. I don’t believe there is any harm in keeping young, thin and trim. I don’t think there is any harm in cosmetic surgery, if it is something your ego requires. And it may not hurt the audition process either. But if you lie about your age as well, then you are only lying to yourself There is no crime in being a mature, experienced singer. One of my friends, who auditioned for Speight Jenkins tells me that he heard her audition, and thought she was very young. She was honest, and said “Well, I’m really not young–I’m 37.” And he stroked his chin and said, “37…Just the right age…” She got cast.

Perhaps there is some truth to the ancient wisdom that opera singers are always fat? Often, when I sing an opera or a concert, people come up to me and say “You’re so little! Where does that big voice come from? I thought opera singers were always fat!” If we look at the singers that are currently on the Met Stage, they are more often than not WAY overweight. But most singers competing and auditioning at the regional level–are trying to stay thin and healthy. Not all are successful, obviously. Also, opera does not pay all that well… Who has the money for a face lift? If you are the least chorus member of an Equity production, you are still making $1,000 a week–I don’t know too many opera singers who actually make that salary every single week.

Most singers who don’t want anyone to know their age just don’t tell.

The best singer usually gets the applause. If there is any inequity, it is that the young coloratura soprano who sang the Bell song easily got more applause than the mezzo coloratura, just because the sop had higher notes.

I expect it is different for men than women–There are far fewer men than women. And it must be much easier for a Tenor.

The optimal time to get a career is in the early thirties–The voice is settled or settling in and the musicianship and stagecraft should be well on the way. If a singer has not married yet then he or she also has the flexibility to travel, and see if they actually can make a go at it. And if it doesn’t happen, then it isn’t too late to make other plans. (Though singers are usually reluctant to let go of that dream. I know a lot of singers in their 40’s who still hope for it to happen–Some of them are wonderful singers, too–But the way the system is set up currently, the road is no longer paved for them to succeed. In other words, at the moment, if you don’t win some major competition, or get into the right apprenticeship programs when you are in your 20’s, then it seems nearly impossible to get into the system later. This doesn’t mean you can’t have some kind of a career–it does seem to mean that the really important companies won’t be too interested in you.Outside of getting really aggressive about age discrimination and the law, I really don’t know what can be done. Directors will need to change their mind set about the ages for the apprentice programs and competitions. Though It makes sense for singers to compete within their own age category, it seems unfair to discriminate against older singers just because they happen to be older.

After recently turning 30, I have many concerns regarding my age and just starting a career. I left music for five years right after high school before going to music school at age 22. I now have my Masters in Voice Performance (graduated in ’97) but have not auditioned or performed since then. I switched teachers immediately after graduation and have been working through major technical problems. I hope to be able to audition confidently within a few months, but am worried that I am starting too late, that my lack of experience will be a major hindrance, and that my absence from performing in the last two years will bring up red flags, not to mention that I am one of the gazillions of lyric sopranos out there.Any advice, encouragement, or discouragement?

I would just like to add another question to your list . What happens to the women singers who take time off to have children and then wish to come back into the profession?

I know someone who is currently doing this and having a very hard time. She is a fine singer with a big voice, but she is 45. She originally tried to come back in her old Fach, mezzo. Now she has switched to dramatic soprano. I guess we all wish her luck. She has a couple of very important auditions coming up, so I hope they get her somewhere.

BTW, some opera companies ask the age of people applying for non performing positions, too.

I, for one, investigated the possibility of suing since San Francisco’s Merola Opera Program is openly age-restricted. I have quite a bit to say about age discrimination, as do many of the other older singers on this list. It is the issue of age discrimination, (along with weight) that most effects the “unknowns”. The “Knowns” got their starts young, with the help of all those de facto or de jure age restricted apprenticeships and age-minded mentors (e.g. Dame Joan Sutherland, who actually thinks that competitions with an age limit of 32 have their limits set too high). The folks in the trenches down here are the ones with the most experience in the issue of trying to build a career after 30.

As a 23 year old lyric tenor who has a degree in voice performance and has been singing professionally for several years, I am constantly beset by age-related bias at auditions and competitions. I am aware that there is danger in singing demanding repertoire at a young age, but I have been constantly reminded of this since I started serious study. I would be skeptical of any young American singer with a ruined voice who claimed ignorance to the dangers of singing too much too soon.

I participated in a recent competition which was advertised in TNYON, and was not called back for the final round. The judges were kind enough to offer a session afterwards where they candidly discussed their impressions with the contestants one-on-one. I was indeed curious as to what they thought of my performance. When it came to be my turn, I waited while they reviewed their notes on my singing, and to my surprise the comments were all positive: “Beautiful tone, good presentation, strong high notes, sounds like a good technique.” One judge looked up at me and said, “I enjoyed your singing. It seems that the only thing you have against you is your age.”

I was not singing inappropriate repertoire. I don’t look exceedingly young; I’m 5’11” and had a full beard at the time (I have noticed many young male singers at auditions with facial hair…could this be why?) It seems that singers these days cannot be taken seriously until they’re in their thirties, by which time they’re passing competition age limits!

The only issue that I see from my young career is getting started. I am an enormous fan of Pavarotti and many other tenors presently performing. My issue lie in the fact that opera companies are failing to recruit nationwide to fill the shoes of some of these older singers. There are many excellent singers that I have heard in various competitions who are selling shoes right now to make a living. My cry is for the larger opera companies to please not take the 60 plusers who are asking millions to sing one night to stop the madness and start to think futuristically about filling shoes. I recently had tickets to the Met. to see Pavarotti ( $150.00 a piece) in L’Elisir D’Amore and he cancelled. I will get no reimbursement and no apology from him or the Metropolitan Opera. I do not have enough funds to travel to New York often to hear these “top dogs” of opera. There are still hundreds of excellent singers out there that would sing for peanuts. It gets tiring hearing this and that about the millioners who cancel at will and cannot freely sing the roles of their youth. The last three tenors concert was an embarrassment for all three of those men who have had such amazing careers. I can name four or five tenors from the state of Iowa alone who can do it just as good and they are all under thirty. I ask the Met. and all opera companies of the United States to take into consideration the cancel factor before casting singers beyond their years. Spend the money on training the next generation of talent. Thank you for your time.

Why is it not illegal in the singing field? As far as I know, any organization that accepts and uses government funds, like opera companies, organizations that sponsor competitions and, educational or training programs, are required to abide by certain rules to keep their funding. So how can they get away with age discrimination? I’m not in a position to answer the first part of this question, but yes, I am worried about being an older singer. I think we should do whatever we need to in order to feel good about ourselves, but I don’t think the career should force a singer to do something they don’t want to. Yes, I know at least one who has been re-done, but they won’t talk about it.

The organizations that discriminate are making it harder to lie. They want to see original documents, and I’m not about to try to obtain a passport with an altered birthdate.

Good singers get good response, bad ones don’t.

I’ve always wondered if it’s legal for them to ask – I do consider it to be impolite and irrelevant. I’m thin, healthy, well-groomed and have no sign of deterioration in my voice so what difference does it make how old I am? If I’m asked directly I’ll probably take a few years off but then being asked to prove it is another issue.

The optimal time for anyone in any field to start a career is when it happens – some of us are lucky enough to get started early, but for various reasons some don’t get the chance to start their life until later. Some who start early are finished by the time they are 30 and move on to something else.

I think singers don’t protest against these things enough – they’re so afraid of being blacklisted. If no one at all entered a competition with an age limit the sponsor would get the point, but the younger singers won’t go along with it and I can’t say that I’d blame them. What would happen if more of us lied and “crashed” auditions with limits? What about NATS – even they have age limits. Why be a member of an organization that discriminates?

I wanted to apply to the Music Academy of the West in Santa Barbara (correct me if I’ve got the name wrong), but there is an age limit for singers. Not for instrumentalists. As an educational institution they must receive some government funding, so again, why are they allowed to discriminate? Some organizations have corporate sponsors – how about a letter writing campaign to the CEOs who’s companies donate, to point out how their money is used? I get especially offended when someone like Marilyn Horne makes a big deal about nurturing talented singers but then discriminates against older ones.

I understand the complications of this issue – organizations want to help younger people because they have many years ahead of them to grow and perform, and we are a youth-oriented culture. I guess it seems better to invest in someone who could have a 40 year career as opposed to one who could have a 10 year career. I also know what a waste of time it is to hear singers who are past their prime, or who never got good training and are still not getting it.

But many singers get a late start because they went to college for something other than music first, had family obligations and couldn’t get their education until later, didn’t make the right connections or get that lucky break, or just didn’t discover classical singing and opera until they were adults. It’s a shame they have to fight so hard just to be heard.

Perhaps it would help to publicize older singers who managed to make it in spite of the odds.

I actually started to lie about my age for some competitions before I was too old so they would already have me in their records as being 3 or 4 years younger. I figured they would be less likely to question me when I sang for them again a few years later. But what happens if you win and you’re disqualified? That would make a great lawsuit, if the prize is worth the trouble.

This is the biggest issue affecting my career. I made a quantum leap from adequate soprano to career-potential mezzo at 31. I finally found my voice, and although my audiences appreciate my singing, I do feel discriminated against, especially as a woman singer. For some reason, women are supposed to get their singing act together a lot faster than men, judging from the age restrictions imposed on us in competitions and young artists programmes. I personally don’t like to be asked my age, as I look much younger than I am. I also don’t believe we should have to lie, but in some places, like Germany, it seems to be expected. I know of singers who have fake passports so that they can enter all the big competitions. Are we reduced to breaking laws in order to be heard? Furthermore, I can’t understand why my talent would be appreciated more if I were younger. My music making is informed by my life experiences. And some of these have been harsh, which is why I’m starting my career later than most. I’m not asking for sympathy or special treatment, just equal opportunity. I have been turned down for auditions and by management based on my age paired with my “singing experience”. This is the most frustrating thing of all. However, I did not give up. Last year, my luck began to change. I found a great agent who believes in me, and jobs are beginning to trickle in. But I do feel the pressure of having to achieve certain things in a very short time. It would be a wonderful thing if the classical music industry did away with age discrimination, and the lies that go with it.

I’m a 31-year old soprano. Since I started singing, I’ve had teachers, coaches, and a plethora of other singers tell me that I need to lie about my age. The general message is that “all judges and auditioners assume that everyone lies by at least five years, so if you choose not to, be prepared for them to believe you’re older, and it may prevent you from getting roles or apprenticeship programs.”

I saw one person at the Eleanor Lieber Competition who was so nervous about her misrepresentation about her age that she confessed, and was immediately disqualified.

So far I have resisted pressure to change my birth certificate and perpetually lie about my age, but I must admit the temptation is there.

Ouch. You have chosen a topic which has weighed very heavily on my mind of late, having recently been “released” from the roster of a non-profit which guides emerging artists, in order to make room for new artists. This is supposedly standard procedure for all artists who have been with them for a certain (unspecified) period of time, but it carried quite the sting, nonetheless. And singers, as you know, generally don’t need any assistance when it comes to comparing themselves harshly with other singers or having their confidence undermined, both results for me of this episode.

I am a singer who has chosen my priorities a little differently than many of my more aggressive colleagues. Singing has always been to me a very important part of my life. And I mean that quite literally – part of (the larger context of) my life. I can’t imagine myself not being a singer, although at age 39, with only regional credits to my name, that possibility starts creeping disturbingly into my consciousness. But that said, I see singing as part of the larger journey I am on, and as absolutely the perfect vehicle for me to learn the lessons of self-discovery that I am here to learn. I have chosen, on the whole, the “living of my life” over an all-out push for as many auditions as I could get. This took various forms at various times, from working to save a failing marriage to spending time temping to keep a roof over my head. I do not apologize for these choices, but I recognize that others who made different ones are further along in their singing careers by the time they are my age.

I do believe, however, that the personal growth which was a result of having gone through the experiences I have only benefits my singing, my much stronger sense of self, and my maturity (not defined by age) as an artist. From a personal point of view, I would make the same choices again, for the most part. However, I increasingly come up against those who, whether or not they say it in so many words, are aware of the clock ticking rather loudly as concerns my career. When there is money to be made, and I am thinking here especially of managements, it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out that, even given singers with equally sound techniques, if you take on younger singers, they will have more years of profitable singing ahead of them.

I am singing better than I ever have, and have gone from someone who, years ago, had panic attacks at the thought of the smallest church solo, to someone who, with ease and joy, gives solo recitals reviewed by major newspapers. I am frequently rehired by conductors who were happy with previous performances. But I am keenly aware that, to make that jump to the next level, with representation by a major management, singing regular, national engagements, with singing providing all my income, it would not hurt to be one of the bright new lights on the horizon, fresh out of a respected apprentice program or having just won the Met auditions. Now that it is more of a focus for me, I am building some momentum in my career, but it is startling to see much younger singers showing up at jobs along with those of us who have been around for a while. And I have had all too many conversations with colleagues also in their late thirties or forties along the lines of playing up the solo work we’re doing and minimizing the pro choral work, no matter at how high a level, all the while on the inside praying that both choral work and temping will, please God, someday really go away once and for all. There are few things less attractive to contemplate than being consigned to being an old choral singer or an old temp or, worse, both. And I know a dozen or so extremely talented singers in their forties who are doing plenty of both.

As for appearance, I used to think people who dyed their hair were vain and superficial. Why couldn’t they just be satisfied with looking how they looked – graying hair is, after all, practically a badge won by virtue of experience, and not something to be ashamed of. Although I look young for my age, I’m right in there with them now, once a month like clockwork, lest I lose yet another bit of advantage in an area that, unlike many others, I can control. I can’t see myself having cosmetic surgery, but never say never, right?

I do know of at least one specific instance where a singer lied about her age. She was one of the winners of this year’s Oratorio Society competition, and one had but to look and to listen to know she didn’t meet the age limit of 40, not by a long shot. This was confirmed to me by a respected person in the field who is of a certain age and who has known her since way back when. I’m not sure how I feel about this; I do know that I won’t lie when there is a stated age limit, and so she can enter competitions for which neither of us is eligible when I will not. But I disagree with the notion of age limits in any case, so maybe she is doing what she feels is appropriate to wage that particular battle. The closest I will come to lying about my age is to put the current year instead of my birth year on an application, as if I were doing so out of habit (this would be only in a case where I would prefer that my age were not known, not to pretend that it is other than it is). I would love to hear some clever answers (other than “old enough”) to the question “how old are you?”. It is illegal to discriminate on the basis of age, but prospective employers are allowed to ask, so how do you prove that that was the criterion used if you are not hired, especially when there is a formalized Fach system by which singers are hired by type?

I do notice a difference in audience reaction to younger performers. I went to a concert recently which featured two performers, one in his late twenties and one in his early thirties. They were quite well received, and their bios made a point of what prodigies they were and therefore how impressive their respective successes are. In one case, the technical facility was impressive indeed, but this listener, at least, longed to hear some real music being made, which one expects more from someone with a little more living behind them. Maybe the proliferation of aging baby boomers will start to change people’s values in this area, but such longstanding ideas die hard.

I have rambled on. I will close by saying that I would have loved to have been all put together, all polished, and with a successful and lucrative career at age twenty-five. But I could not have reached the point where I am in my singing any other way than I did or any sooner than I did; I just hope it is not too late in the eyes of the powers that be in this business to make the unique contribution I am finally prepared to make.

P.S. Thanks for addressing this issue. Every little bit helps.

I am an aspiring opera singer. I am still in the training process. I havefound it difficult to be my age. I am 25 years old and I have a fairlylarge instrument. When I sing for people I am always asked how old I am andthe proceeding comments are that I must be “pushing” my voice too much. Iknow that that can be a problem for many young singers who have largevoices, but I also know that I have a strong and healthy technique. I find that if I bring certain repertoire to people they seem a little apprehensive and suggest I sing Mozart instead of the piece I have brought to them. Just because one is a certain age should one sing Mozart. When I first started singing I sang Cherubino’s arias. I sing Mozart and Rossini just like other people my age, but when you hear it in my voice it doesn’t quite fit.

Now don’t freak out and tell me that you are worried about the potential damage I could do to my voice or any other thing that I have heard before. I have a good head on my shoulders. I don’t think that I should be singing Verdi or Wagner at this stage of my life, except to try a little in a practice room and with the guidance of my teacher. I have been blessed working with a teacher who has been cautious with me and did not get swept up in the potential instrument. I have seen that far too many times with my friends.

It has also been suggested by people that when I am ready for the real world to lie about my age and say I am older. That way I will be taken more seriously with my instrument. That suggestion was made to me two years ago. I think that what repertoire should be done at what age should be used as a guide and not as a stead fast rule. I think there are exceptions to rules and when people have them stuck in their minds that it is not possible, you can give people the wrong rep. and do potentially more damage than good.

I have strong feelings on this subject. First I think it’s immoral and illegal to be categorically banned from competitions and training programs because of age. I think there should be experience distinctions rather than chronological ones between people. I did the unheard of– I started classical singing at the age of 37 and I’m a soprano. Some people start things late.

I’ve already sang as a recitalist all over the place and also with a symphony orchestra. I’m enjoying this immensely. Why should my age and gender stop me? Also I think major vocal competitions should allow anyone who is a serious singer to participate. How about age categories?

I am 28, almost 29, and a soubrette. Unfortunately, I took some wrong turns just out of college and wasted time with teachers who were NOT helping my voice, and found a great teacher a year ago. My technique is finally approaching where it should be to have a career, but I am starting “late”.

I was told by several coaches that I should begin lying about my age (to say that I am younger than I am). A friend who has a very similar voice to mine (weight, color, repertoire) was told by Joan Dornemann (a respected coach!) that if [our voice type] doesn’t have a career going by age 30, to forget it.

What is with this? So do I lie, and commit a crime to have my birth certificate or passport changed? A well-known singer once told me that EVERYONE (especially women) lied about their age in her day–and that was 20 years ago! I find this appalling. The message is, if you’re a wunderkind, fine–if not, give it up and don’t even bother. How do we get around this–especially if we’re late bloomers? (FYI: I look like I’m 22, so I could probably get away with lying.)

In response to one of your questions, yes, I have seen different audience reactions to good singers who are “surprisingly” young. Their reaction implies that good singing at age 25 is somehow more impressive or important than good singing at age 35.

This aging article or issue interests me. It would, of course. I am a gerontologist. Properly Ph.D’d and all that. And a musician and a fan of Victoria de los Angeles. I am well familiar with the segment Ms. Amara did on “Over Easy” with Mary Martin, et al, and her recounting of her career and age discrimination and having “second covers” slip around her to sing performances. She sang a very fine “Voi che sapete” on that Over Easy segment. To me … if I may be candid … an article including singer’s perspectives and anecdotes would be very interesting and provide some insights. The problem is, of course, that there may be some unintentional distortion of the person reporting the experience. But you know that, I’m sure.

Of greater interest to me personally and professionally is the effect that the age a person BELIEVES him/herself to be, and the stereotypes the singer him/herself believes about age, is AS important as any discrimination based on chronological age.

What’s the adage? “Be careful how you see the world. It IS that way.” I think, for example, that Maria Callas suffered a crisis of self-confidence based on a number of things, her age being one of them. If a person “buys into” age stereotypes and thinks “Well, I’m too old for that part!”, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

The more telling questions is, What does the voice sound like? And, perhaps to a lesser degree, what is the visual impression made by the singer? I’m sure you must know what I mean by this without my going into details and examples of one extreme or the other.

In my opinion, Victoria de los Angeles was able to present a credible …no, wonderful! … Melisande in the later part of her career. The voice was capable of it. And the costuming and the long, blonde hair made for a wonderful performance, creating a young Melisande in several performances I enjoyed.

What does the voice sound like? And in staged opera, given the cooperation of costume, makeup, and movement consultants, what “visible impression” is the artist capable of. An interesting topic, aging and opera.

Boy do I have something to contribute to the age issue! I’m not old in the real world, but in opera I’m past my prime. I’m 26 years old and a female. I have not been able to get into an apprenticeship and I don’t have a voice that is competition material (I’m a lyric soubrette). I have been told by teachers and vocal coaches that companies are looking for my type of voice and experience (many years of musical theater). I have 12 prepared opera roles. I have auditioned all over the country. But every response that I get from the companies are that I’m too old for their apprentice program or that I’m not a member of AGMA.

I don’t have the support of a voice teacher and I’m carving my path alone in opera. I’m lucky to have friends who help me network otherwise I would be out of the game completely. I have a deep passion for opera and I’m my happiest on stage.

So what is a girl to do? I continue on…audition…network…and keep studying.

The ironic thing is, I’m only 35, and I have to deal with being “too old”. I’d be more than happy to participate in the anonymous discussion of why I started late. The first reason is I went through a terrible marriage. My husband could not cope with a successful wife, and certainly not a wife who would have to travel a lot and leave him behind. I learned a lot from the experience, and did a lot of growing up.

After my divorce, I was ready to go after my dream of making a living from singing, and I finally liked myself and believed in myself enough to make a decent go of it. The second reason things happened so late for me is that I didn’t find the right teacher until I was 31. Until then, everyone thought I was a light lyric soprano, and because I am a good musician (I have a piano and composition degree – I suppose that took time out of singing, too), I could easily have had a pretty decent choral career, which would have been fine, but I needed to communicate in a more direct way. I think it’s a miracle that I can sing the way I do now. I’ve worked so hard, and with the help from the right teachers (Angelo Marenzi and now Neil Semer), I’ve found my real voice. People who knew me as a soprano can’t believe their ears when they hear me now. The reason I tell you this is because no one in the past has ever encouraged me to really go after a solo career, and the fact that I have accomplished what I have in the past four years should speak volumes against discouraging “older” singers from their goals. The problem with age limits in competitions and programmes (i.e. Belvedere competition, age limit 33 and Ravinia, age limit 32) is that we are denied these wonderful opportunities of being heard by people who could help us, and being exposed to potential engagers. What we older singers need much more than the twenty-somethings is exposure NOW. I personally hate competitions, but I know that they are a good way to get exposure, even if you don’t win. You never know who’s out there listening.

I could go on and on like this, but I’ll just say thank you for letting us vent our frustrations in this manner. I truly hope things change. I have a dream that if I’m ever really successful, I will set up a competition for singers between 30 and 40 who are starting out and need a helping hand.

Thanks for the topic… I am an “OLDER” older singer (i.e. over 40!) who has struggled with this issue until recently. I started late as a singer (grad school at age 27) and consequently was too old for most of the apprentice programs when I was technically ready. I am no slouch… Met auditions winner as well as a few other “finals” prestigious competitions…..sang many lead roles in performances at a highly-regarded university and have a few professional roles to my credit. I ALWAYS am prepared to lie about my age at auditions; I’ve NEVER been asked my age; (I look way younger than I am) but am terrified to sing for management because I think I’ll be “found out!” Naturally this puts a crimp in the amount of performing I do. Recently I decided to resume doing auditions after a hiatus of several years when I thought I was TOO OLD…my new thinking? I want to do this! If people don’t want to use me, they won’t, but I refuse to let other people’s opinion about what my age SHOULD be stop me from being happy. Will this work?! I don’t yet know….. but it’s better than sitting around regretting having not done it.

I am singing better NOW in my early 30’s than any other time in my life. Every singer I know feels the same way. Yet, my agent has even encouraged me to lie about my age if asked. This upsets me, because I am proud of my age, and what I’ve accomplished, and wouldn’t want to be 25 years old again if you paid me! I feel any type of cosmetic surgery is wrong. God made me this way, and this is how I stay!

I do feel that audiences “eat up” the young singer when they are especially talented, and why not? It’s exciting to hear really good young singers. The problem is, that they also spit them back out just as quickly if they have a short singing life. Sad…

I think it is completely wrong to ask a singer’s age. If asked, I have said, “How old do I look?” OR “I’m 12 years old” OR “I’m 85 years old” …anything ridiculous! The problem will never be fixed as long as singers placate to it. I don’t think we’re “required” to answer any question we don’t feel comfortable with, RIGHT???

I think the age-thing for classical singers is a much more complex one than simply a matter of being discriminated against because of age. The real problem lies in the fact that young singers are given preference over older ones because (I guess) of their looks, or the fact that agents find it exciting to promote a ””new star””, while a very important aspect is being overlooked: the fact that mature singers have a wealth of experience, more sense of style of singing, a maturing voice, and the ‘right’ age for certain roles like Marschallin (Rosenkavalier) or Idomeneo. There are some examples out there of people who have naturally matured into either certain roles or the ‘heavier’ repertoire, and they tend to be immensely compelling performers. Too many young singers take on roles for which their voices aren’t (yet) suited, and for which they do not yet have the correct vocal weight or sense of style.

This may happen because we are also a visual product. But, it does cross the lines, either you look like you could play the role or not. They really do not need to know any more.

Yes, I am worried about how age will effect my career.

-Do you think singers should consider age-reduction cosmetic surgery? Do you know anyone who has had this surgery done? I think that this is a bit ridiculous. After all we are usually in heavy make- up and seen from great distances. I have actually seen someone with a not so good eye job.

-Music theater and popular singers think nothing of cosmetic procedures to keep looking young, thin and trim. Why do classical singers seem to avoid these ideas? I would argue that the reason is many Musical theater and Popular singers possibly do commercial work, work in smaller theaters, do not wear as much makeup…(forgot about CATS OOPS) Maybe another is… May get spammed for this, but there are tons more musical theater singers, competition is high, and they are often cast with a “look” being a priority. Now, I am 110% behind looking thin and trim for opera singers. We are our instruments after all.

-Do you have experience with singers lying about their age? Yes, I know a few. Took off a couple of years from my age on my last audition trip to Germany. For some reason they always ask when you fill out a form for house auditions.

My take on this is NEVER lie to get into a competition. It is unconscionable, just short of stealing in my book. These people choose to give away the money, they get to choose the rules. But, when it comes to get a job, ALWAYS lie.

-Do you know anyone who changed their birth certificates, etc.?

-Ever seen anyone ever been found out, that you know?

-Have you noticed any difference in audience reaction to similar talent in older singers vs. younger singers? Younger singers get more slack in their performance.

-Ever seen anyone (particularly a woman) start a career late in life successfully? I know of a couple who have raised their children first then began a career. Barbara Dever, And another mezzo, I sang with in Santa Fe… But, can’t remember her name… She was in Arabella… I believe also sang 3rd lady this summer. Of course there is also the Amazing but, wonderful yet, stunning Carla Wood.

-Anyone you know sued for age discrimination? No, a tough one to prove.

-Do you think it is legal to be asked your age on applications, or at auditions? What clever answers have you heard singers use to avoid answering?

Is it legal? Never thought it was or wasn’t. When I would leave it blank in the German auditions, someone would bring it back for me to fill in the answer. My agent has trimmed a few years off of my age in auditions. But, with my experience, it can become ridiculous. My experience shows my age.

But, my stock answer to the age question is ” Why of course I am 29, I am a soprano after all”. I have only used this in sticky social situations, never tried it in an audition… Don’t know if they could get the joke!

-What do you consider to be the average age-range of professional singers with full-time careers? Is it different for men and women? Why? 45-55… It is acceptable for men to start later… Just look at most competition applications.

-What are your thoughts on the optimal time to get a career started? -Any ideas on how to fix problems in our field on this topic? It has always been clear that it is expected that a singer be in a professional circuit by the time 30 rolls around. I don’t agree with that.

Some more of my thoughts…. I think that this business is fascinated with the “new” talent. But, since I have been in it, I have seen many “new”s used up and discarded. It is far more common to hear about a singer, “they have only studied for two years! What a natural talent!!!” I wish I would hear, “this singer has been training for 14 years, absolutely diligent about having 1 lesson and 2 coachings a week!” I would be nice to know that training and preparation was rewarded, rather than someone winging it on youth. One other topic is the lulls in a career. I think that there is another area of difficulty where one has experience and is no longer the new kid on the block. I don’t think that one is listened to with fresh ears. I think that age is a factor in this. And I have seen a lot of people disappear after having a great start in a career. It does my heart good to come across a familiar name… Yea, they are still in the game!

I think this is a very important issue for singers as well as those of us that sing in and run our own companies. The only time I discriminate with regard age when auditioning singers for The coOPERAtive is if we think someone is too young to be singing certain repertoire. I really don’t care what age singers are when they audition but I don’t want to hear a 25 year old young woman auditioning with the “Big guns” verismo rep. If you are that voice type, fine, it will keep while you sing roles that can help you nurture your voice. It is sad that singers feel that they need to rush into repertoire 5-10 years earlier than they should because they are going to be “over-the-hill” at 35. Most voices don’t even gain consistency until they are 30. There are rare exceptions. Look at the career of Mirella Freni for instance.

She did not start doing heavier repertoire until the last 5 years. She was still singing “Susannah” (Figaro) in her very late 40ies. Mimi and Micaela were staples of her career. What’s the rush?

It is also a shame that the opera world has gone “Hollywood”. I don’t think that anyone in any business should be so grossly overweight that it is dangerous for their health, but anorexia is especially dangerous for singers. But that is what casting calls are coming too. Face lifts, eating disorders, and liposuction???? Our bodies are our instruments. Would someone take a piece here and there from a Stradivarius??? No. Why, so for singers? Because you have people running opera companies that are not necessarily looking for the best “voices” but looking for Opera Barbie and Ken. We are the ones that should be dictating to the public what is acceptable on our stages.

Believe me, if one or two people go back to saying that it is ok for a 35 year old, normal weight (or even over-weight if that is the best singer) person to sing on our stage is ok, then our audiences will think it is ok too. Why settle for mediocrity because someone’s nose isn’t perfectly aligned? It’s far past ridiculous. I also happen to agree that it is much worse for women. Age, looks, everything is much more crucial for women. A man can be 40, balding, over-weight and not handsome and still be cast. But that is our society. We do not value our women after the age of 30. Youth is all important these days. I don’t want to hear a 25 year old soprano sing Tosca just because she can and is beautiful and slim. Let her wait until her age and beauty matures with her life lessons. But I also don’t necessarily want to hear a 40 year old Zerlina. Voices grow and mature and that is what growing into your repertoire means. For men and women. We are the ones that are driving ourselves to these outrageous measures and we can stop it. It’s not that hard to reverse a trend and I think for the health of our singers and our business we better start now.

I think there are differences from company to company. It depends on the director and his perception of the world of people.

-Have you been discriminated against, Yup. In my own home company. Fortunately, the management is changing and I will probably be hired to do a part this season.

I expect to do a lot of concert work from now on. The voice is in its prime, even though the birthday isn’t. Absolutely not. The voice ages just as the skin ages (not necessarily for the worse) and it would be as silly to hear a mature voice in an apparently 20 year old body as it is to hear an immature voice in a 60 year old.

They can be much more devastating on the voice. Any surgical procedure requires endotracheal intubation, which can play havoc on the cords. Why risk it? And why give in to the jerks who think that only young, beautiful people can have sexual relationships and exciting lives?? Musical theatre singers tend not to take very good care of their voices, anyway.

-Do you know anyone who changed their birth certificates, etc.? Yup. A winner of an international competition that was limited to under 30 was in fact 42 when she won. I won’t tell you who or where, though.

-Ever seen anyone ever been found out, that you know? She was. But she kept the prize – it was more convenient than opening the competition to scandal. Checks and balances in that competition were upgraded so that it could not happen again.

Fat versus thin seems to be a greater issue – especially since makeup and costuming usually cover any age identity. Karen Bureau began her studies in her 30s. She started singing almost immediately, but that’s late for beginning to study voice. Also Richard Versalle began his career and his studies in his 40s.

Just lie – that’s as legal as being asked. Men can sing at a later age than women. Older women only get a chance to sing if they already have had a smashing career. Late-40s to mid-50s seems to be the time that women are excluded from leading roles (unless their names are already known.) I know men in their mid-60s who are still getting leading roles. It seems stupid that just when the voice comes into its own, as long as you move reasonably well and look reasonably good on stage, that you are no longer hired for the really great roles.

There seems to be a relatively narrow window of opportunity. Lyric voices need to be singing professionally by the early 30s. Dramatic voices can start careers later – into their 40s – but they still need to have some concert and public appearances under their belts. I would like to see more intermediate programs – something between school and apprenticeships, and something else between apprenticeships and leading roles. Not every voice is suited to the small comprimario roles – there need to be more regional opportunities to do solid leading roles with orchestra, not particularly in large houses or with major companies.

Am I feeling the sand running out of my hour-glass. You bet! It terrifies me sometimes to know that I am in a vicious race for time, yet I cannot escape the fact that it has only been in the few last years that I have begun to really appreciate the depth and magnitude of the art of singing. Admittedly raising three children took precious years, but during those years I gained a wealth of wisdom and perspective. The voice may always have been there, but the brains and heart certainly were not.

Growing older has been a marvelous and exciting process, marred only by the sad reality that the “business” is not interested in old 32 year-olds. I would not go back and be 22 for all the opera contracts in the world, if it meant giving up the knowledge and wisdom that I now possess. With all due respect to my younger colleagues, it puzzles me why a naive, scatter-brained twenty year old is preferable to acentered, rehearsed, and somewhat wiser thirty-something. As long as the voice is vibrant, why should any one care about its age? I would be more concerned about whether the singer possessed the mental stability and maturity to handle the rigors of rehearsals and performances. The longer I sing, the more I discover how much more than voice is required of the singer. You must be strong, wise, courageous, healthy, balanced, flexible, principled, easy-going, hard-working, mature, educated and have a fabulous voice. In my experience these qualities come together with time, something that I am running out of….

Classical music is SUPPOSED to be about the music and the quality of the instrument. Gender, age, and physical beauty is irrelevant in Classical music. The beauty is in the soul and training of the composer and the performer. If Classical music is allowed to be influenced by age and physical appearance, then the quality of our art will go down to an unacceptable level. There should be no age limits on competitions or auditions.

Although I can’t really put thoughts together on the issues raised, I would like to offer a suggestion: Perhaps NYON can interview various impresarios to discover if they assume we all lie about our ages. I personally do not lie. Some young artist programs demand proof of age, such as a notarized birth certificate. Perhaps all companies should adopt this policy?

There are so many tangents stemming from the ‘age issue’ topic. Repertoire, Fach system, European versus American type casting, etc. Perhaps you should narrow the scope of the discussion a bit. Or stretch it out to cover several months, a new facet each month.

I have attended several summer programs, and I have heard reputable coaches and teachers recommend to “older” singers (ages 28-30) who are just starting out on a career that they should lie about their ages and even get fake birth certificates so that they can continue to enter competitions and young artists programs. The reaction among the students was pretty much shock because they did not realize that the world of singing could be this artificial and deceptive.

I have found that the bottom line is who is going to sell the most tickets? Who is going to make the opera company look good? If it is an older soprano, and she can still sing, even “pretty well”, she will still get the work.

If she has sung at the Met or New York City Opera, she will still get the regional work, because she will sell more tickets. I believe that most regional opera directors have too many women to choose from–especially sopranos. I also believe that many of them go by what’s on the resume and not as much by what they hear. Could it be that they don’t “know” good singing when they hear it? Well, they know what they like, so it doesn’t matter!!

Younger men get more work than older women. Older men get more work than older women, and men, in general, get more work than women, because there are less of them in the business!!

It has been my experience that most regional opera companies have “favorite” singers that they know and like to bring back year after year. Therefore, it is hard to “break in” to a new house.

I am John R. Jennings, Artistic Director, President and Founder of Houston’s Opera in the Heights. We are beginning our third year with Barbiere, Broadway Concert, La Boheme, and Tosca. I had auditions last night, where I told the 3rd 28 or 29-year old promising Puccini soprano (I’ve heard) to wait at least 4 more years to tackle Tosca. I HAVE HIRED OLDER SINGERS, who are becoming more and more successful – for Tosca, Scarpia, 30’s, 40’s, one is in 50’s.

One of these days this crazy world will realize that truly big, dramatic voices do NOT come into their maturity in their TEENS and 20’s! I am 48 – I sang my 3rd Pagliacci last season – will be studying Otello this year – it’s just time to begin for me!

Obviously, if a singer sings heavy, dramatic roles too early or sings one or two Fachs heavier than their voice can handle, they will sound “old” early on. Most young singers today do not, in my opinion, receive proper technical training, take the time to solidify that technique with “middle-voice” repertoire (Italian songs, Lieder, etc.), and jump right into High-C arias.

One auditioner for our company sang Rodolfo’s aria, had no experience singing even comprimario parts, and had worked on “Che gelida..” for two days – either the teacher has misinformed the student, or the student has no concept of what the world of opera really is! “Caro mio ben” would have been just great for chorus consideration! Why strain for no gain?

Some of us have had to “wait”, but we will be singing in our 70’s. As for appearance, I believe that we have an obligation to our public to stay as fit and attractive as we can. I am 5′ 10″ tall and weigh 188. I keep weight under control, but sensibly.

This insane quest for the youthful singer is killing our art. I only hear really great singing rarely and most of that is from recordings of singers in their 30’s, 40’s, 50’s, 60’s and 70’s!! Singers in College and University opera programs need to realize that the singers they are listening to on recordings are MUCH OLDER than they are and have been studying/singing for at least 10 to 30 more years than the student. We don’t feed infants steak and we shouldn’t expect young singers to fake maturity either.

Think about it – how old is Luciano? How old is Placido? How many singers are being properly trained to replace just these two greats? Who will be there to “bridge the gap” when they retire? Wake up, world of singing and opera!

I began singing seriously in my late twenties and have definitely come up against the age issue. I have never understood why, especially in vocal competitions, there are such strict age limits. It takes the classical voice a long time to mature and develop once you begin. I can understand having different divisions, such as under and over thirty, but to have cutoff ages at all makes no sense. Financial support is a necessity in this business for any beginner regardless of age.

When I turned 36, someone from the audience at a recital I gave came up to me and said she was on a committee for the Met Competition and that I should be sure to enter. I told her I was too old, which she did not believe because I looked much younger. A person nearby whispered to me,

“Lie, everyone else does.” I didn’t enter, but I did go to the competition. There were three people on stage who I knew personally who were all close to 40 years of age. If you sing well, isn’t that the issue? And since it is easy to lie to an extent about your age, what is the point of having age limits?

I am very glad that this is an issue that is going to be discussed in the Newsletter. I think, or rather I know that there is age discrimination at all levels in the operatic profession. When I was first starting out singing in competitions I was 19. Back then it was, ‘”How old are you? ” I would proceed to tell them and be told, Oh your very young.” Well yes I was, but why should the question of age come up at all? Why should we be asked, “How old are you? ” Even in my earlier twenties it same thing, “Oh your a baby, was the reply from a previous teacher.” Even the great Licia Albanese said, “my for one so young you have such a big voice!” It is only now at the ripe old age of 28, that when you tell a board how old you are they look at each other with that knowing look, “Hmmm she’s getting old.” Now the people who once said, “oh your so young. ” Are starting to say, “Well your 28 now. ” This I know, but instead of age lets focus on the matters at hand. “What does a person sound like? ” It takes years to master a technique. I think it is about time to see people in their late twenties and early thirties as not getting on in years, but getting to become masters of their technique and character.

CJ: The only comment I have on the age issue, is that it is a dreadful shame that singers feel that they need to lie about it. This is a business about product, like other entertainment industries, and far too much emphasis is placed on the statistics behind the product. If the product is good and appropriate, then the public doesn’t care about the age of the package. Why should the industry? However, if all singers stopped lying, it could change expectations. Should the industry stop asking? Maybe. But I think that there should be some competitions and programs reserved for student singers and the very young, because they can’t be expected to compete with seasoned professionals, and deserve the chance to accumulate some credits. By the same token, some competitions and applications have a minimum age. I think this can be a wise idea as well and should possibly happen more often. It can give a guideline to singers regarding what the company or foundation is actually looking for, and maybe even save young singers time and energy barking up an unlikely tree.

I am a bass- baritone who is above the age of winning contests…simply because of age. Sorrily having studied once for five years with a wrong teacher, who had the voice but not the pedagogy behind her, I find myself better equipped to sing now and teach at the same time. Thanks to a very knowledgeable ( and controversial teacher) he not only has helped me, but also advised me to change my birth certificate since I don’t look my age anyway…therefore why change it I ask?

I have been in the pursuit of freedom all my life to find out that you become a slave to your passion, in our case, our voice. What better way to free ourselves than to free our true voices. Will cheating land me a better opportunity?

In the days of pure royalty, the nobility would not be found performing in public theaters, therefore they were only amateurs for the books, but their own palaces had salons holding 1000 or more guests. More importantly, these amateurs were able to take the art to the next level, without being themselves professionals. Not bad for a pastime, huh? Opera in America requires a day job, unfortunately!

Like it or not we live in a world of speed…but the voice should not be hurried so to not die as quickly. As for myself, I plan to be singing in my 70s, as truthfully and as real as I possibly can…on stage or off…for I feel the health of the voice is a balance of the physical, mental and spiritual state of our beings…That 1st love has to come from ourselves to ourselves.

I sing for myself 1st and second to my audience. I want that complete abandonment and joy in my singing and I want the same outcome in my listeners…like children at play.

I’m a mezzo-soprano, I have a different problem concerning age. I have a real baby face and look ten to fifteen years younger than I am. If I were to tell people my actual age, most likely they wouldn’t believe me. I never fill in the age on an application, which is my legal right, and that has not prevented me from receiving an audition. Only once was I asked my age during an audition, and I asked very politely if it was important. The auditor said he was just curious, so I countered with, “How old do I look?” He told me mid to late twenties. I said, “Close enough,” and we went on from there. No big deal. If it ever were a big deal, I wouldn’t want to sing for those people.

The reason my baby face is a problem is that last summer I suffered a knee injury which might eventually require surgery. During recuperation I put on weight. Between the knee injury, the extra weight and just general maturity, I’m not as limber as I once was, and I’m not comfortable auditioning for roles like Cherubino and Hansel. I’d rather be Marcellina or the Witch. Unfortunately, auditors rarely have the imagination–or maybe they’re just too lazy–to conjure up what makeup and costume can do. I have always fared better in auditions when the stage director is present. Stage directors usually have more of an idea what theater is about.

As to the ongoing debate in the on-line Forum, it seems to me that a lot of the singers making comments haven’t really looked at the history of the industry. For instance, how do they know that the great singers they name got there so easily? They’re making the assumption that anyone having a career nowadays didn’t go through some of the same situations, and they’re making assumptions that those singers are telling the truth about their age!

A few years ago I decided it was now or never and I decided to do the MET auditions.; I had never done them, for whatever reason, and planned to do them for the first time at age 31.; My teacher who had judged this region in previous years thought I really had “what they are looking for,” as the Queen of the Night is my specialty role and I still look like a college student. I had been told that they always draw random order for this competition so imagine my surprise when I found out that the order was going to be off of a pre-printed list and that I was to be first!; “Oh well,” I thought, “I’ll be a good sport.”” The director then went on to explain a number system they were using so they wouldn’t need an MC.; We were to announce ourselves when our number was placed on a music stand near the front. As I walk into the auditorium, my accompanist points out that my number is on the stand.; It did not seem right to me, but it was exactly as she just got done explaining, so I went up, introduced myself and began my piece, the Queen’s Vengeance aria.; As I am just getting into it, the director comes down the aisle jabbing her index finger into the air, interrupting me. The judges had not entered the room yet and it appears they need to begin with some “announcements”.; No apology or attempt to validate “their” mistake.; When I finally got to sing, I was understandably shaken but I still sang well.; On my second round, I had gone downstairs; to warm up, and this time I was rushed to stage, out of breath. Needless to say, these judges did not choose to send me on.; When I questioned them afterwards(which we were encouraged to do) the senior judge told me he didn’t like my diction on the Queen’s aria, “although, that is a matter of opinion,” he said.; “It’s not because of how you LOOK, however,” he went on.; The other judges had varying degrees of relevant comments. As I was leaving the theatre, a very distraught man from the audience flagged me down, letting me know that he thought I should have been chosen and that I had a beautiful voice.; Then, as I lay in my hotel room, trying to come down from this experience, I hear the TV announce, “Today was the Metropolitan Opera Auditions…”” I open my eyes, and their I am on TV singing the Queen’s aria! Now I don’t know what *really * happened here…ageism, small town politics (my district is a very large, rural district with people flying in from all over.; I noticed that the “local” singers got the best audition times.; The judges also went gaga over many of the “courtesy” contestants, who had the “hardship” of living in a more populated area.) or simply ineptitude.; I do know that it FELT like a big slap in the face and it has taken me a while to get back on my feet and auditioning again. Currently, I no longer audition for ANYTHING with a age limit on it.; I have no dates on my resume and so far, I have not been asked my age at any of my opera company auditions.; Since I still look, “young” this has worked for me.

I feel age discrimination should be illegal in all the performing arts, but unfortunately it is pervasive. I myself, even though I am in my mid-twenties, have had occasionally to shave two years off my age in auditions, since in Southern California youthfulness (or the appearance of it) is a premium for singers like me who cross over to musical theater and film/tv. I am dreadfully worried about getting older, even though I know my voice will only get better with age; the primal (perhaps unconscious) sexual response that an audience member has to a performer seems to nosedive in direct proportion to their perceived age, at least in this geographical area. I don’t know why classical singers are loathe to explore cosmetic surgery, when musical theater and pop singers go for broke. Perhaps it has something to do with the attitude that if you can sing this stuff well, that’s all you need to do; perhaps it’s a form of laziness inspired by the general comfort of pushing an art form that doesn’t rely solely upon looks.

I’m not aware of anyone who went so far as to change their birth certificates, but I do know performers who refuse to tell their age. Vehemently. I’ve found that if what the producers want is there in that person, they usually don’t ask after a certain point. It is not legal to ask someone’s age on a job application, but since they usually ask for a driver’s license or some sort of I.D., the info is out there for anyone who really wants it.

About four years ago, I was auditioning for the role of a teenager, since I looked young enough to pass on-camera. The casting director asked me point- blank how old I was, and I panicked. My agent at the time had specifically scared me into thinking that if I told, I would count myself out. So I flippantly said “legal”. The casting director chewed me out (apparently I was wearing too much makeup for a teenager, but since the only experience I had was in theater, I erred on the side of stage-makeup in case they had to videotape me). I was horribly embarrassed. Since then, I’ve been advised that whenever you’re asked, and you know the age of the character you’re to play, you say you’re that age. I know this doesn’t always work for classical singing, so I’m not sure how to tackle that when I get to the point where I’ll need to.

I don’t know how to fix the age discrimination that exists in the employing of performers. I do know that if someone moves you onstage, and they look appropriate to their role, you as an audience member don’t CARE about their chronological years – you are hungry merely for the impact, the contact art can have. I think one’s age is a private issue, and should remain so.

This is one of my pet peeves. I know many, many singers who lie about their age and it infuriates me because everyone automatically adds 3-5 years onto any stated age by ANY singer now! I do not lie and I am sure people think I am older because it has become standard practice to shave off a few years.

In the long run however, it does not matter. If you sing well that is all that matters and none of us can stay 23 forever. [paula rasmussen–don’t know if we can use her name or not. She is an int’l’ level singer though soooo if we can, it’d be good] I AM SO GLAD YOU ARE DOING THIS!! This is a VERY important issue for me, as I am “too old” to have a career, but the truth is I sound better than I ever have and I couldn’t go any faster. Since I am just starting the auditions/ contests/workshops routine, it’s very spooky to contemplate, because 10 years ago I couldn’t do vocally what I can do easily now. I definitely want to hear what others are experiencing. BRAVO! What a great idea this is. Even young singers can use knowledge about the situation–and maybe help change it for others in the future.

I believe that Arleen Auger started her career after teaching music as an elementary music specialist. Unfortunately, her career was cut short, due to a brain tumor…but what a wonderful contribution to the world of music she made. She was a Mozart Specialist….and was quite successful in Europe. All this information I gleaned from a CD cover…Perhaps you can find out more.

Also, I have a friend who discovered late in life that he could sing…a Verdi Baritone…he has had some success on the East Coast…but also has not been cast this year by many he auditioned for in New York, and elsewhere….despite his phenomenal talent…he also won a prestigious competition…I know he is frustrated….the age discrimination thing is robbing audiences of a very special experience…this is a voice that should be heard!!!

Lastly, because of my friend, and Arleen Auger’s courage, I have set upon a path to try to break in to the world of professional opera singing. I am currently enrolled in a masters program at a good opera school…hoping that when I am done, someone will want to cast me….not only am I almost 50, but am a 5’10 robust woman. I have been encouraged by those who encouraged my friend to try to do the same. I hope that somewhere there is someone who will recognize that voices, like fine wine only get better with age.

After reading your list of suggestions on topic, I noticed one area left out is the studio. My experiences happened in this setting, long before one would expect to encounter them. The first one was about 5 years ago. I was working with a now 80-yr-old tenor named Gianni Saveli, who had fabulous technique which was hidden under incredible bitterness and anger and which was descended on students in class on a regular basis.

Class setting worked well for his type of technique and teaching but every student left in tears at one point or another. His point to me one day was that because I was too old, I would have to “spread my legs” if I wanted a career. For someone like myself who lives a celibate lifestyle, this was painful and difficult – as well as illegal – to hear.

The second one was when I studied for a short time with Los Angeles Basso, Louis Lebhertz. He told me in one lesson that he was going to get me a covering job at LAOpera and the next lesson told me he was going to sleep with me which I informed him was incorrect. Then a couple of lessons later, I was told that “you are too old to have a career”. This from a man who is destroying his own voice and couldn’t admit that he was taking my money under false pretenses. I know more about voice than he does. I could fix his voice, he would have ruined mine. Never got the job – surprise, surprise!!

I fully believe that these “men” do this and get away with it because they can. In the people that I’ve heard of having to deal with this, probably 95% women being in my position to maybe 5% men being there, if that many. (99%/1% is probably more correct) Opera is an international profession and there are no international laws against these things. We can’t enforce them here because if we try, we don’t work. I already don’t work. Maybe I should try. I’ll give it thought. Another side to this issue comes from the society we live in in this country. We seem to have a lot of people running opera companies who grew up here on television and film. While they may be intelligent and well schooled (although some seem not), they have not benefited from the type of “impresario training” one might receive in a European setting. I think they get out of college with a business degree and think that is all they need. What they don’t get is that they don’t know how to listen. They judge by what they see with the sound becoming an unimportant inconvenience to getting the show on. Singing is last.

Why do they do opera if they don’t like singing – and in one case I know- hate singers entirely. Bottom line to these issues is that females get the worst of it because there are so many of us compared to the guys and so many more men’s roles to be had. They are many more operas with one or two women to five, eight, or twenty thousand men than the other way around. So if we want the job, we deal with junk in all forms of disrespect and must find our own devices in dealing with it all. In my perfect world, we would be judged for our ability and reliability, and maturity would be a desirable commodity in casting. In the real world, being over 20 for a woman is a liability, especially in a looks-are-everything crazed profession.

Those of us over 30 just staring out must work to go as far as we can and not let the bastards get us down. We can truly get to know what being alone is unless we can develop a strong support base to help us keep on track.

Thanks for listening to this long rant, but I couldn’t tell you what happened without telling you what happened. There, that’s better. I just got back from NY and am pleased that I sang fairly well. I would love to think it means something, but I know they can get 500 women younger and thinner than I am. We’ll see and if I get anything, I’ll let you know.

Having spent several years in another career before I decided to take a stab at singing, I got a very late start. I’ve now been auditioning for opera companies for a few years, and I’ve only been asked once by the auditioners about my age. I answered them honestly, (I was in my early thirties at the time), and I got the job! If I were asked today, I may prefer to answer with humor and not be specific, or just not answer the question, but I don’t believe in lying about one’s age. First, I think it’s wrong to lie. But even if a singer doesn’t have a problem with lying, I feel like singers are just buying into the whole idea that younger is better, when they say they are younger than they are. This ultimately encourages companies to bring a singer’s age into the decision process. I feel that I have so much more to invest in a role as I grow older and accumulate life experience. The companies I have worked with over the past few years seem to value my life experience I bring to a role as well.

At nearly 52, I feel that my voice (Baritone) is in its prime right now. I’m currently playing SWEENEY TODD in a community theatre production and have done lead roles in many Musicals and Light Operas over the past 4 years. There are at least 3 Opera companies within striking distance of where I live, but I’m certain I’m too old to even be considered by any of them. It is unfair. If they would just listen, unprejudiced, I’d stand a pretty darned good chance.

As Sweeney, I’ll have to ponder the justice in things the way they are. The current culture does seem a little cut-throat to me. They are uniformly treated with suspicion, until they perform and prove themselves. The trick is getting the chance to show your stuff. Actually, having a little age on me, makes me more marketable. I can stretch from 40 to 60 in appearance, which offers a large variety of roles. The problem is getting them to look at what I can do in the first place. Sometimes. I guess it depends on the individual’s appearance. I’m told when I wear a beard, I closely resemble Sean Connery. He certainly has no problem getting roles. His facial “character” doesn’t seem to detract from his attractiveness. For me, I think I’ll just leave things as they are. Yes, I do, and she’s only in her early 30’s.

If it helps, why not? No. Personally, I never lie about it. I’m rather proud that I started so late, but still can perform. How late is late? Although I waited ’till 48 to get started, things seem to be taking on a life of their own. Now if I could just get an audition in Atlanta, or Augusta, or Charleston!!

Do you think it is legal to be asked your age on applications, or at auditions? Of course. How else are they gonna cast you? They have to know.

-What do you consider to be the average age-range of professional singers with full-time careers?

40 Maybe a tad younger for women. We should encourage all people to maintain open minds. Those best suited to perform the roles should be cast.

First I want this opportunity to say what I personally find so frustrating about the whole age issue. In my opinion it turns our art form into a race. It ceases to be about art and becomes about who can be ready the soonest. Because of this there are too many performers who have nothing to say because they’ve not had the time for self discovery to find out WHAT they want to say. One of the chief criticisms of opera singers is that we all sound the same and that there are few of us who actually move our audiences. How can one be unique and secure in who they are and what they want to say if they hardly even know themselves?

I recently attended a workshop sponsored by Opera America in New York. Among the panel of “experts” were individuals who head some of the major apprentice programs in the U.S. Granted, given their jobs, I can understand that there would be some bias towards younger performers. But I came away from it disheartened by the attitudes of these “experts” One workshop participant asked a question about the whole age business. A panel member seriously responded that it is of no use to hear singers in their mid thirties and upward because of basic physiological facts that as one gets older the muscles get weaker and it would be highly unlikely that anybody of that age could begin let alone sustain a career! If that was true, many of today’s stars (Domingo, Pavarotti, Freni, who have enjoyed long and vocally healthy careers) should have retired years ago! The basic attitude of this and many of the panel was that if you hadn’t landed a major apprentice program and weren’t enjoying a full-time career by the time you were thirty you may as well forget it. I find that attitude very sad and very limiting. I’ll admit that perhaps thirty is a little late to take your very first voice lesson and think that you’ll sing at the Met, but with that kind of timetable set, there isn’t much time to do anything but sleep, drink and eat singing from the time you graduate from high school! What about those who decide a little later in life – like the ripe old age of 25 – that they want to sing? What about those who take time out to live a little along the way? You really have to be incredibly lucky to “make it” by then. You have to be “lucky” enough to grow up in a place where you are exposed to classical music, have supportive parents, have money for lessons, get good teachers, choose the right universities, land in the right Fach, have good health (physical and mental) etc. If you are unlucky in any of the areas I just mentioned you can easily be off course for a few years and not make it by the time you are thirty.

I’ve been consistently and steadily working virtually every moment possible since I graduated from my degree programs. I have hardly been lazy, but it has been a slow process. I’ve performed a great deal at the regional level and have brought lots of joy to many audiences. Because of the time spent “living” with my voice and myself, I really know how to sing and have plenty of life experiences to draw from. I keep fit and trim and often thought to be a good 5-8 years younger than my actual age. I sincerely doubt that any of the people in my audiences left performances saying “she sang so beautifully, I would have enjoyed it so much more if she were 25!” However there are those that would have me quit because I’m in my mid thirties, and have not yet made a debut with a major company.

It should be about who can give the best performance. It should be about who moves the audiences and sends chills up and down their spine regardless of the persons age.

As to a few of your specific questions: Regarding physical appearance – I can understand why people who make their living based on their looks get cosmetic surgery. We are supposedly not making our art and our money based on how we look. Classical singers should not be expected to look like models and movie stars. With that said there is much a singer should do. You should be in good shape. Not only do you look better, you sing better. You should be well dressed. If it means going to a professional and spending all of your $$ on one sensational outfit and wearing it to every audition – then do it. Too many singers show up looking out of style, tacky and unprofessional.

The Age Problem!

These are only the details of a polished presentation – no qualified performer should be losing jobs because of crows feet and gray hair! Hello – has anybody ever heard of makeup and wigs!?

Fake birth certificates? I’ve known people who did it. I always said I’d never do it. Now, I’m starting to consider it. I’ve worked so hard at my craft and now that everything is really in place my opportunities are drying up because I wasn’t ready fast enough.

When people marvel at great works of art like painting or sculpture they rarely ask how long it took. When and if they do I doubt that they find the work any less inspiring based upon the answer. Indeed, when it is revealed that a great work of art took years and years of sacrifice and dedication, the work is usually held in even more esteem – NOT less.

When I was just starting out as a twenty-something singer in University, I can remember looking at the older singers (thirty-something) in school and thinking, “god, when I am THAT age, I will be singing at the Met, not here.” I looked down at them as if something was wrong with them.

Well, now I am thirty-something and I have not made it to the Met let alone City Opera. I am a great singer, I work very hard and I get wonderful reviews regarding my work, but as an older singer, I now realize that this profession and this art form are very tough and it takes a long time for some and a shorter time for others. The hard thing is being patient and continuing to work very, very hard keeping ones eye on that future Met contract. I still plan to get there but it may take longer then I had hoped.

I can laugh at the twenty-something singers who probably look at me and say, “god, when I’m his age I won’t be singing here, I’ll be at the Met”… I hope so!

My overriding goals as a singer have always been: (1) to be the best singer I can possibly be, (2) to never stop enjoying singing, and (3) to be satisfied with wherever these realistic goals take me. Telling yourself you will one day be singing at the Met is a worthy goal, but unrealistic because…let’s face it…no matter how talented or lucky you are, it just might not be in the cards. I will always be striving for (1) and so far, at “40-something” I am still enjoying it and have managed to have a pretty decent career (some great gigs, some less so). I came to these conclusions in my early 30s, after a number of years of telling myself the same thing everyone does…”someday, I will have a big international career and will even sing at the Met…”. When it started to dawn on me that it might not happen as I had expected, I took some time to reassess my goals and try to make them more realistic. In the meantime, I got married and have another major focus in my life, which has made me much more relaxed as a singer because it is not the “be all and end all”, and I know that I no long have that aura of desperation that many singers end up with as the years pass and the MAJOR GOAL is no closer. The fascinating thing about this profession is that there are a many ways of having and defining a career as there are artist, and I greatly respect and admire anyone’s manner of dealing with it. We all have to find what works for us as individuals, and this works for me!

I can row that same boat….. I am 26 and still in the same city that I started University in. I used to look at all of the older grad. students and say “Why are you here, why aren’t you singing somewhere?” I’m finding out. I have had three close friends that have won the Met. auditions at very very young ages. One 21, one 22 and the other 26. I have become very impatient as of late and am having a hard time sitting still waiting for this all to happen. I try not to justify everything by saying, “that’s ok, careers don’t really get started until I’m thirty.” I’ve seen living proof that this is not true whatsoever. I think that the professor that taught me that line never saw his break and he is now 50. The bottom line is that some people get Met. contracts and some don’t. I think that if you’re making any kind of living singing you should be proud of your achievements. I’m still scrubbing toilets at a group home between gigs. At least I’ve felt what it’s like to get applauded. That’s what keeps me going. Good luck with your future. Mark Age seems to be a big problem so I’m hearing. It seems like most of the time though, you have to be in the right place at the right and and know some of the right people. This coach was just telling me yesterday about this girl who’s a freshman at Mannes last year. She was singing with there top teacher and somehow the girl got an audition at the Met. She’s now making her debut this coming up season as a principal in one of the Mozart operas at the age of 19. The coach however did say that this was one of the most beautiful girls that she had ever laid eyes on and that she was perfectly thin and had a body to die for.

I guess sometimes it takes young perfection and for the rest it will take hard work and patience and maybe a little luck of the draw.

Much success to you. Never give up what you really want no matter what age you are. You’ll get where you want to be if you believe it enough. God bless I’ve only been asked my age once during an audition. (Yes. I took off five years) But still, I wonder what the auditors are thinking. I’m in my early forties, and although I look somewhat younger, particularly on stage where it counts, I can’t help feeling that since I have not made a major career for myself by this time, some opera companies can’t be bothered any more. This wouldn’t be so bad, except that when I was in my twenties I was treated as many women are, as a child, and in essence told to wait until I grew up. Yes, there are apprentice positions available to young singers, but they seem to look for chorus types, rather than personalities, and every young singer does not fit this mold. It seems that you have to somehow get a foothold in the 30-35 year age range, and work your way up, almost as if you are in a corporation.

This situation doesn’t seem to affect men in the same way. Yes, it would be difficult for a man to start a career at major houses in his forties, but there do seem to be well-paying jobs available to men who aren’t well-known, and sometimes not particularly well-trained or talented, while even at the lowest level, all the female roles seem to be filled. Maybe age discrimination for women is just another chapter in the constant discrimination we face throughout our lives. Maybe young women should start standing up for their rights early on, and not “wait their turn” as many of my colleagues did, believing that when “the right time came” we’d be ready, and our talent would get us where we needed to go. There are many”well-behaved” women in their forties and fifties who regret not seizing opportunities. If we don’t look out our for our own interests, who will? I keep auditioning, and am lucky to book some jobs, but I wish I didn’t fall for being told to wait and be patient, only to find it was “too late” on the other end.

By the way, I am 5’4 and weigh around 105 pounds, hardly the stereotype of a middle-aged, matronly singer.

I can’t believe that you think apprentice programs only take older or chorus type voices. Are you delusional or something? How did you really come to this conclusion? I don’t think that Ruth Ann Swenson, Carol Vaness, Deborah Voigt, etc… would appreciate you calling them either old, or chorus singers. They were certainly neither when they were in these programs. Most of the singers that I have heard of at present with one or two exceptions is under the age of 30. I totally agree with soprano on the issue about not being technically ready for these programs. They are very competitive and most only accept the most talented musicians that show ENORMOUS NON CHORUSTER POTENTIAL!!!!

I also think that this forum seems to be filled with delusional people who want advice but already have the answers as to why they haven’t succeeded in this business yet. Stop glossing over the real reasons for your own egos sake and be honest with yourselves.

I have kind of the opposite problem: I am baby-faced. I look like I’m in my twenties, thirty at the most, when I’m somewhere around the big 4-0. If I actually tell people how old I am, they think I’m lying. Only once have I been asked at an audition how old I was. I very politely asked if it was important. They replied they were just curious. I asked them how old they thought I was, they answered oh, about mid-twenties, I told them that was close enough, and that was that. If asked again, I will do the same. If a company wants to make an issue of it, I’d rather not sing for that company. Why is this a problem? I have suffered a knee injury and just from the general effects of maturity, I’m not as limber as I once was, and I don’t feel up to the physical requirements of Cherubino and Hansel. I’m ready to move on to the Marcellinas and the Witches. In the auditioning game, there’s always a new move to contend with, and that’s THEIR loss. In the meantime, I keep my own personal audience base happy with solo concerts at churches, hospitals and women’s clubs, and the concerts have led to several other paid concert and recital engagements. I’m having fun, I get to perform what I want to perform, and if I never get the “big break”, so what?

Eventually, they’ll see in me the Old Maids and Witches, etc. By then, I might have retired from my nine-to-five job, and I still have a career ahead of me.

Are you serious with “another great soprano”? I know of many many sopranos (myself included) that were taken seriously and started singing professionally in the mid to late twenties age range. If they told you to be patient, it was most certainly because you hadn’t reached the appropriate level technically and/or artistically. Just waiting until you get older doesn’t necessarily guarantee that you will ever reach the high level people are looking for. Not everyone was blessed with the same level of talent.

OH woe is me! I once sang a sour note, now I want to give up singing! PLEASE everyone, stop what you’re doing and make me feel better!

I think the opera business is in a sticky situation now. For the first time in history, classical recordings are actually starting to *make* money! Because of this, the recording companies (and in turn the opera companies) are focusing more on image. (And this is happening all through classical music – not just opera – note the topless pictures on violinist Lara St. John’s album covers)

Perhaps because the popular music coming out today is so lousy, people with any taste are turning back to opera. But these new opera fans won’t stand for a 60-year-old Pavarotti trying to convince us he’s a 25-year-old starving Bohemian playwright. I think that the reason it’s been harder for *any* of us to get a job is because the standards have raised dramatically. Today’s opera singer has to be able to sing AND act AND swordfight, or whatever else they require.

The long and short of it regarding the age issue is this: people under 30 are still not going to get any work in big houses (the whole vocal maturity thing — I’m 22 and I’ve just come to terms with it), and if you’re over a certain age, you really have to fit the part, because if you don’t, there’s someone else who does.

Sad but true…

Might I ask where you have been lately? Classical recordings AREN’T making money. That’s the very reason we are seeing more risque albums with people like Lara St. John and shirtless covers of Alagna. The major labels are cutting way back on complete opera recordings because they aren’t making any money. Classical recordings have made lots of money until rock & roll really started making headway with the general public. Which that began in the early to mid 50s. Ever since then the classical music market has been steadily going down. The only albums that make much of a profit are the solo albums because there isn’t as much financial investment in that as there is in the complete recordings. And the only “classical” CDs that do well are the ones that pander to the general public such as albums with risque covers or, Heaven help us, albums with Michael Bolton and the 3 Tenors.

I find that in general age discrimination (as well as weight discrimination and looks discrimination) is happening FAR more often to women than to men. While I agree TO AN EXTENT that opera is a visual art and that SOME standards should exist for realism’s sake (i.e. not having a 400 lb. Violetta OR a 400 lb. Tamino, for that matter), I think overall in this business it is deemed “okay” to turn down a woman, ESPECIALLY A SOPRANO for work if she looks “too old,” or “too fat,” or “not attractive enough.” When choosing men, it is always for their voices and overall stage presence. This would explain why Ben Heppner, a very obese tenor, always gets work (because of the voice), while Alessandra Marc, an obese but clearly talented soprano, was turned down work by Georg Solti and others. The rub is, for me, that I personally do take care of myself, and my appearance. I work out regularly and eat a relatively healthy diet (though I never deny myself occasional junk food and I NEVER “diet”). I dress neatly and elegantly and wear make-up and style my hair. I also look very young for my age (I am in my mid 20s but have often been mistaken to be around 18). I suppose this will serve me well later on, but in reality it bothers me that women in general and sopranos especially are subject to age and weight discrimination. Either discriminate for EVERYONE or don’t discriminate at all. In today’s market a Montserrat Caballe or a Joan Sutherland would probably not be hired, despite the fact that these two women possess legendarily beautiful voices and astonishing musical sensitivity. I am not against the idea of attractive opera singers who look the part, but I do think that women bear the brunt of this trend, and that is entirely unfair. Additionally I find it disheartening to hear directors, conductors, etc. tell women (not men!) to lie about their ages, their marital status, and whether or not they are parents. I remember in one issue of TYNON a director saying that he tosses out resumes of FEMALE singers if he sees that they are wearing a wedding ring! This is unfair and if it is not illegal it should be. In general it seems that women have to work twice as hard, be twice as talented, and look twice as good as their male colleagues, and for sopranos this is even more the case. It also appears that women are the only ones who face questions as to whether they are capable of juggling a family life and a singing career, which is also grossly unfair and incredibly rude, in my opinion. Clearly Renee Fleming and Dawn Upshaw don’t have a problem juggling their huge careers and being mothers, but it is apparently the assumption that women can’t possibly have a personal life and be a dedicated, professional singer. I accept that the competition for women, especially sopranos, is tougher, but I also think the notion that there is SUCH a dearth of male singers out there that companies HAVE to take whatever comes their way is a whole lot of hooey. When I started singing classical music that the opera/classical community would not discriminate against women AS MUCH because women are NEEDED in this field. How wrong I was. I simply want to sing–it is a shame that so simple a desire is hampered by something as outdated as sexism.

Just as an aside: Isn’t one of Caballe’s claims to fame the fact that she had to audition more than 100 times before she was hired? Doesn’t sound like she had it so easy, spectacular voice or not.

I beg to differ that Mesdames Sutherland and Caballe wouldn’t be hired – first of all they were not as large and as mature when they began their careers as they were when the finished them. (Keep this in mind as you begin to tick off the years yourself.)

Second of all, not all the singers we have before us now on the worldwide level are such lissome examples of beauty and youth – maybe that’s who gets picked for the American apprentice program choruses where talent is not the main issue, but let’s face it, world-class talent in the leagues of Sutherland and Caballe doesn’t emerge from those factories on a regular basis.There are many non-stunning people – people who are not gorgeous, not thin, a little large, a little short, a little middle-aged, or just plain ordinary – making valuable careers. Personally I think if these two world-class divas were starting out today, they would be booked solid for 30 years all over the world.

I have comments from a classically trained soprano, one who gave up singing professionally but still maintains her voice, teaches and sings for charity, recitals, etc., and is a fine singer.

She had a modified face lift (included the “jowls” and cheek area but not the eye lift). It did not affect her voice at all, but 1) she rested vocally for several weeks after the general anesthesia and 2) there was numbness in the affected areas that she had to get used from the technical point of view, for using the mouth and muscles under the jaw. She said it faded after a few months but was still there a little, but not a problem.

She said overall it took her about 6 months to really feel back to singing completely normal, however, this person is 62 years old, so a younger singer might have a shorter rebound time.

PS – She says this is the best thing she ever did. Suddenly everyone is telling her how good she “sounds” and she has gotten more students, more “gigs”, and more positive attention. She says she wishes she had done it years ago, she might have maintained a more active career. She is planning to get the eyes done next year but she is not going to do the forehead because that affects the underlying muscles and she knows that in her technique she uses her eyebrows and forehead a lot in singing and thinks that might affect her.

Lately, I have been told by several people, including one of my coaches, to lie about my age. I am a late bloomer, so to speak. At 31, I have 1 leading, 2 supporting and 1 comprimario role under my belt. I feel about 3-4 years behind in experience for my age. I would like to participate in an apprentice program this year. I think I can get into most of them, but I only have a couple years left. Right now I am a lyrico-spinto and it has been suggested that I am developing into a dramatic soprano. I know that bigger voices bloom later, but will I be able to find the programs I need to help me develop if I am a couple years older than their age limit? This worries me.

I would lie about my age but I am worried about getting caught and too many people already know how old I am. The director of my current production asked me how old I am and I told him the truth. I asked him if he thought I was “behind” for my age, and he said “yes, a little.” I wish I could turn back the clock a few years if it going to affect my career that much. Does it really matter that much, if I am 28 or 31? If I could afford plastic surgery, I would get it in a few years. I have to confess I just got a prescription for Retin-A this week, but my birth certificate is the real problem.

Are you seriously suggesting that you are 31 years old and would consider plastic surgery “in a few years” !?!?!?! Please tell us all that this is just a histrionic overstatement. Please get your head together, unless you are truly spectacularly aged for your years or have a unique problem like sun damage, you don’t need plastic surgery in a few years. Maybe Vitamin C cream or Clinque turnaround – that’s it!

Maybe not the best idea in the world admitting your age to a director and then asking him if you were behind in your career!! Don’t let that false sense of “performance family” make you forget that this is a business and not everyone has great motives and start confiding in all sorts of people! Besides, 99% of us are behind in our careers, why advertise it? Never, never, never throw dirt in your own face. Never. If someone asks your age, respond with another question – “Why do you ask / How is pertinent to this issue – Are you concerned about me taking on such and such role too young? etc.” And by all means don’t answer with a number, answer with a list of your achievements, your developments, and what your plans are , i.e. “Well, I am now at the phase where I am very comfortable in the spinto rep, and I can sense that I growing in the dramatic direction. I still have a lot of time for that and I am pacing myself wisely because I am in for the long haul.” or something like that. As to “overstating your youth on applications”, that is a personal decision, but as another singer, I don’t blame anyone who does so and I think it is just fighting fire with fire. But since you have been going around announcing your age to directors, etc., how do you plan to get away with it? Will the people you have told really remember and will anyone at the program know to ask them and will they care? (or if anyone notices, might they just think – hmm, she is only 28, I thought she was 31, and then move on with their lives?) Can you try it on one app as a trial balloon and see what happens? Be careful doing it on programs to which you have applied before, they may keep records. If you think there is a real risk, then don’t do it. If you do exaggerate your youth, be sure that all the numbers on all you materials support your information.

The age issue is a very frustrating one. I imagine it is very difficult for the older singers, 30+. I am finding the frustration on the other end, 25 and under. I abhor the idea of opera companies asking for our ages. Why can they not just decide on our voices alone whether or not we are up for the task they are considering us for? I have filled many applications out in the “real world” so to speak, and not one of them asked for my age or marital status because it is ILLEGAL! How is it that opera companies get away with this?

As I stated before, I am in the 25 and under group and many times they will merely look at my age and nothing else determining that I’m not old enough for the job. Instead of listening they look. I realize the opera world has changed immensely over the last 20+ years with it going more towards the visual and leaning away from the auditory aspect of the art form, but this is ridiculous. Likewise I know people who have been looked over because they are older. In an age when the opera world is supposedly looking for more voices this seems strange. But I think the difference is that many aficionados are looking for the “voices” while the opera companies are looking for the “looks.”

You will find that even though you may indeed sing well at age 25, the male voice really ‘kicks’ in to high gear in your 30’s. Stronger, more reliable, more experience. Yes, it is a catch 22, but when you are 35 (in terms of singing) you will know exactly what I mean. Not too worry, there is plenty of work available for the 23 – 29 year old male singer as well.

The best rationale I have heard for lying about your age (even when you aren’t especially “old” — whatever “old” means!) is that if you really have something spectacular to offer, you need to get someone in the business EXCITED about you. Now, rotten as it may be, one of the things that makes a singer seem more EXCITING to a conductor, a prospective agent, a critic or a promoter is the “newness” of that singer on the opera scene, and to most people “newness” equals “youth”. (After all, to people who don’t know first-hand how hard we singers work to develop and refine our talent, the idea is that if you’re any good, why would you be “new on the scene” unless you’re young?)

Anyhow, the fact remains that having people get excited about you is very important, and coming on as a “young star-in-the-making” can make the difference between being lukewarmly respected and being eagerly pursued and hyped (and don’t kid yourself, we can all use hype in this hyper-hyped era!)

My opinion? It’s IDIOTIC to have to lie about your age, but you probably should as long as no official documents have to be produced. Honesty is a great virtue, but being too pure to lie about a dumb thing like your age is a lousy reason to miss out on opportunities you’ve worked hard to deserve.

I know that this might sound ridiculous, but my 26th birthday is tomorrow and I’m starting to see that big 3-0 just around the corner. I finished graduate school a little over a year ago. In January I found a new teacher and coach (both of whom are really wonderful), and packed up and moved to study with them in late spring. I changed Fachs (from soubrette to lyric). My voice is really blossoming, and I feel so much more comfortable in my new repertoire.

BUT, with my birthday looming ahead, I decided that it was time to take stock and plan for next year. I thought about language programs for next summer. But what I would really like to be doing is performing. So I thought, well, a summer young artist program is the thing for me. Then possibly I could audition for some season-long programs as well, and maybe some competitions.

Great. EXCEPT, I just realized that the programs that I want to attend will hold their auditions in the fall. There is NO WAY that I will feel prepared by then. (Unless I take a coaching and a lesson everyday, which I cannot afford.) I think I could be ready by February, but the auditions are over by then. Like I said, I’m adjusting to a new teacher, a new coach and a brand new Fach. I am in a state of vocal transition, and I need time to work out the kinks. I don’t want to rush into an audition unprepared.

I know that most singers don’t really get going until they get close to 30, but I’m starting to feel a weighty need to DO something. (A good friend of mine from grad school is already getting some great contracts, and many others are already in young artist programs.) My resume is pretty empty, except for a lot of musical theater and the scenes work I did in grad school.

Well, you can probably tell from this rambling post that I am FREAKING OUT about my birthday, and a sense of lack of accomplishment. I just don’t want to get older and still be a student… I’d like some advice from some of you more experienced singers.

Fabulous that you feel comfortable in what you call your ‘new’ Fach. Make sure you really are in looks, sound and mind able to fit into this new mold. It’s always better to keep on the lighter side of the Fach system and sing with a full sound than it is to move into other territory that can be done better by others. A quick look at colleagues as well as pros on the circuit will give you a good indication of which type of characters/roles you should focus on with your body/voice type. Don’t be afraid to sing some of your ‘old’ material at the auditions with your new sound. It’s not going to scare anyone and the change in your sound probably fits within the ‘overlapping’ of a couple of Fach categories. In other words, if you fit the costume and look – you’ll sing the part. Remember, that ‘they’ want to hear good, beautiful singing no matter what tune you are singing for them in an audition. I’m sure you have 3 or 4 arias that fit the fold of being able to be sung by more than one type of soprano.

My coach and my teacher seem to be in disagreement about how ready I am. My teacher says late September, my coach says wait awhile. I think your suggestion about hospitals and libraries is a wonderful one. Not only would I be trying myself out, I could give some free mini-recitals as a volunteer service to my community.

I spoke at length yesterday with an very good actress who is 31 and just beginning to experience a lot of success. She said that she hadn’t even started at my age, and that youth is much more of a big deal in her area than in opera. Everyone’s advice (including my teacher and coach) is to chill out — that the right step will be there when I’m ready to take a step.

I can understand your concern. Older and Wiser wrote a great response. I was also concerned (although not panicking) when I was 26. I had been out of grad school for 2 years, and although I was getting some work and some good call backs, I wasn’t like tracy Dahl. Then, serendipity – I got accepted into a great studio program. I was amazed when I got there to see that most of the people there were in their mid to upper thirties (although no one wanted to admit it!) Just hang in there and try to be patient. Don’t do an audition if you’re really not ready vocally, but don’t procrastinate because of fear (of failure or success!)

When did you change from Singer/Teacher or Teacher/Singer to TEACHER (period.) While some teachers continue to sing into their 70s and 80s, many excellent, experienced voice teachers no longer perform in public. Was the transition gradual (you sang less and less) or did you make a conscious decision to “retire” from performance to concentrate on teaching? –CV

Now in my dotage I find I am listening more and more to the “fabled” singers of the past. Were they that could? Would they “stand up” to today’s audiences? And with the best remastering technology in the world, just what can be heard in recordings made over sixty years ago. I’d like to know if singers today go back to these recordings when studying repertoire, or find them helpful regarding points of interpretation and style. I was alarmed a bit when during a recent discussion with young singers, not one had heard of Eleanor Steber or Peter Pears. These same students were working on a production of Britten’s “Turn of the Screw” and coaching Mozart scenes. Now, I listen as a fan, a lover of great singing, of music, and as a broadcaster. I’m not a singer. But surely a young artist can only gain form hearing the way Steber supports the long lines in “Porgi amor”, or the way Pears-though his voice is an acquired taste-points the text in anything. I maintain there’s a great deal to learn form in these recordings, and perhaps more importantly, a lot to be enjoyed.

Here are two other examples from the distant past: The recordings of Nellie Melba-then nearly 70-at her Covent Garden are well in 1926. She takes liberties with Verdi’s Willow Song that are unbelievable. She’d fail every faculty jury and be hooted off the stage today. But just as you begin laughing, out comes the most beautiful “O Salce…salce..salce.” Each “salce” is colored differently. She was an old lady with most of her voice gone, but the remnants are formidable. Listen too, in this same series, to Mimi’s “Addio” from La Boheme…Again, the tone can be mousy, but she knows how to ride on through Puccini’s Orchestra…And the single “bada” creates the entire character.

Then there’s an artist loved by the history books: Contralto Louise Homer. for years, I have been trying to get a handle on this voice. There’s a new CD form Pearl. They voice is huge, rich, bottom heavy. Then she dazzles on through Urbain’s aria from Les Huguenots. Trills, turns, all beautifully done with an enormous voice. You have to listen long and hard to Louise Homer but its worth it. Singers: what can you learn form listening to old recordings…or are they not helpful at all?

Thanks very much to those who responded to my earlier message on “starting older.” The encouragement was much needed. Any suggestions as to how I can get performing experience? The problem I am confronted with is that most apprenticeships require you to be younger than 30. Will getting involved in competitions help? My teacher in Chicago has suggested the McAllister competitions. Furthermore, I have been told by a friend that I should try to audition for some agents. I very much appreciate suggestions, and I really love this site!

Most of the competitions and artist programs that I know of have a cut off of 33 for women and usually 33-35 for males. I don’t know how old you are but I hope this helps. Try Laura Claycomb advice website for info. It’s listed in the forum replies. Good luck

I am a well trained lyric tenor entering the market later in life (started training at 28), and I would like to know if anyone has advice for someone such as I. I have been told that it is very difficult to enter at my age (35), even though the instrument and singing is sound.

FORGET your age and just do it – you are not, not, not too old, especially if you are a tenor. The opera world is FULL of late bloomers – you just don’t realize it because those who are not juveniles anymore don’t emphasize their age!

Don’t make a big deal about your age, don’t allude to it if possible, just make it a non-issue. There are still some things you can enter up to 35 or 38, and some applications / programs don’t ask your age. Don’t focus on thinking you are too old and focus instead on starting your career!

A good tenor is always a hot commodity. Perhaps some summer workshops or showcase operas could add some roles and experience to your resume. 35 is NOT too late, particularity for a male voice.

Age is a crutch that people with narrow minds use. If you insist on being heard; you will be heard.

Guys have it easier than us women, I agree, go for it and see what happens ? no guts, no glory! I’m hanging onto the hope that my voice type [lyrico-spinto] and the fact that I LOOK 10 years younger than I sound will help. The fact remains, there are those who will care and those who won’t. I’m betting on those who won’t and guessing that the rest of them won’t either if they like what they hear. What say the rest of you?

I say this age business is baloney PARTICULARLY for a man! Just GO FOR IT! If you want proof, take a look at the artists at NYCO or the MET or nearly any company. These artists are rarely in their 20’s. Competitions? They are often for really young singers, but real world? Not too often. Good luck!

While age discrimination is illegal in all fields, it is still asked for on applications for employment. When I was hired by the Met in 1978/79, I wrote in NA (not applicable).. Several days after the information was received by them, I was honored with a phone call requesting the age item be answered. I responded with “that is against the law to ask that question” whereby the comment by the party on the other end of the line was “I know, but we have to have it anyway.” So——- I knocked off 10 years from my legitimate age. I felt that if I had not done so, I would not have been on the stage. Time proved me to be correct with my assumption.

In around 1991 or 1992, I applied for a position in the chorus of the Berlin Opera Co. I was asked age which I was certain that I could not avoid due to probably having to supply a birth certificate. I was automatically shot down for the job. Now I happen to be in excellent health which does not prevent me from performing for what this company wanted in the way of time from its employees.

As for cosmetic surgery, I find nothing wrong with aging gracefully. I also think that when one tampers with the face around the nose, the potential exists for damage to the mask area which in my opinion is the source of resonance for a singer. I also in thinking about why classical singers resist cosmetic surgery is that we are “purists”. I have never seen a woman begin a career “late in life”. It just isn’t going to happen in today’s atmosphere. That goes for a man, too! As for suing for age discrimination, all the auditioner has to say is that I don’t like the voice. And that ends it.

Average age of a performer appears to be between 30 and 40. Then you have those who are on the top and are past their prime vocally who still get hired based on past performances when they should have enough sense to back off on their own and stop. In my 12 years at the Met, I have seen this time and time again in addition to what I would deem miscasting. We are also viewed physically as well as in the age department. (unfortunately).

Also, as an instrumentalist, it is a well know fact that when one auditions for a major orchestra, it is from behind a screen so that there is no possibility of knowing who is playing. You rise or fall on you performance at the audition. The auditioners have no way of knowing if you are male, female, black, white, green or yellow. It’s how you play your instrument.

Time to get started I leave open. I do know that when one is looking for an agent ( most of whom do nothing but take your money in advance) you are told to come back when you have more experience. The same line applies to the opera companies. Well——just how are you to get the experience if no one is willing to give the opportunity to get it. It’s called taking a calculated risk.

“I may be some kind of oddity.. but I do not have distaste for a tattered voice, nor for an aged voice, one which through use of the materiél which remains, can evoke an emotional response.” -Hermine hermine hermine@endangeredspecies.com

Aha! Thanks for doing an issue report on such an important subject. I am a classical singer, trained, educated-Europe, NYC, the whole thing–but I also am a professional business person and very involved with how the business of business is done–and how it compares with what I see in the musical world.

We wonder why the music world is constantly wringing its hands for money, support etc. Lots of reasons–we don’t often operate like a business-often enough, including discriminating against age!! An issue like that today would have companies in the courts faster than you can sing a scale! That in itself is indicative of the problems and pettiness of the classical music world.

I love to sing, and do so as much as I can, and I am in the category you so nicely listed as a” career later in life.” I have always performed, but did so as a second career, and now, I have the time to do so as a first career– but at my own pace. Yes I have seen the age issue, and here are my comments for what it is worth!

It is ILLEGAL to discriminate against age–so says the law. In fact business applications themselves do not ask for age–it is past time for the classical world, including competitions, auditions etc to get with the law. I did call a conductor once and said, do you know it is illegal to ask for age and use this in your processes of hiring–and he got plenty scared. They will especially if they have FEDERAL grants-which operate under US anti-discrimination laws. For some reason, the classical music world holds onto old ideas about such things and think they are exempt from it–they aren’t. Question them about it.On applications I just put “over 21” which says I am a responsible adult. I also happened to be in charge of a scholarship award. I took away the age limit, and we got wonderful talent. The prize is study at the Mozarteum in Salzburg. The more mature winners did better in using the experience. However, younger winners glean other experiences. So the music world should look at the talent, the sound–and forget about the age. Col. Sanders didn’t do his chicken until after 60–look at the success.

Now the voice should speak for itself-regardless of age. A career in music should be open at all age entry levels, and let the talent seek its own level. Too many teachers, coaches, conductors like to have control over poor struggling singers–it is a power game. How about conductors being too old–hmmm!

Full time careers? Like any profession- an early start can be great! Although, a later start can provide a mature sound-but fresh because it wasn’t burned out too early. We need to take care of the instrument, and it should last a good long while.

Fixing the problem may be painful–losing a job or audition when putting the foot down and state age shouldn’t be asked–it is discriminating. Singers need to have backbone and stop being the whipping post in the profession.Europe seems to have the hang up on “Fach” Age etc. Ridiculous–Sing whatever you can make sound wonderful.

By making changes where I have influence–like the Scholarship competition and take off the age limit, and challenging people or processes that like to focus on age–that is the way to make a difference for me. Bringing up the funding from Gov’t gives singers leverage also.

If you give a good performance, take care of yourself and look as good as you can, and relate and communicate what you sing-the audience will love you. I’ve seen many a youth deliver a performance as a child wonder—and never to hear from them again. Talent is not a discriminator of age–so why are humans? I have more to say, but all for now. Should you have questions about my “stream of consciousness note” let me know. Thanks for the opportunity to address this important subject.

Although I primarily sing in music theater, I have found that my young look works to my advantage. I am 27, but my resume states that I have an age range of 16-25. I feel I am at an advantage because this enables me to bring more experience, skill and artistry than a younger performer without looking like I have been around too long!! What I once considered to be a curse, I now use to my advantage! My advice to singers relenting their young looks: hang in there, soon you will be glad you have that youthful look!

Oh my, yes. Age and weight discrimination. The city where I live has a great civic theater program. However, it is widely known that unless you’re young (around 20) and skinny, it’s a waste of time to audition. Even when extensive make-up is needed to age the singer/actress to be appropriate for the part.

In classical singing, it has been my experience that unless you stumble on a great coach in high school or go to the “right” school, by the time you understand the process of how to get into the business, it’s probably too late. Of course some of the blame for this goes to colleges with inadequate counseling. Personally, I began doing my best (by far) singing at the age of 34 or 35, just the age most competitions cut off. Jeanne Arnett

Although I primarily sing in music theater, I have found that my young look works to my advantage. I am 27, but my resume states that I have an age range of 16-25. I feel I am at an advantage because this enables me to bring more experience, skill and artistry than a younger performer without looking like I have been around too long!! What I once considered to be a curse, I now use to my advantage! My advice to singers relenting their young looks: hang in there, soon you will be glad you have that youthful look!

I think this issue is way out of hand! It IS age discrimination, and why doesit happen? When you look at it, many singers get better with age andmaturity. It helps them become full artists, not just parrots. To me, a singer should get to audition for a particular role, and if they fit the bill, then they get the gig! If they don’t get the job, so be it. But to have these artificial rules limits what we might be hearing and seeing, and that’s a tragedy. Some of us might have started singing later than others; but if one can sing the role, what does anything else matter? Many of these age limits are set up to help handle paper work and decision-making instead of to make music.

Yes, I would like to contribute but do NOT use my name. I have to dye my hair, luckily I’m not wrinkled, but I had to get rid of my beard because it was getting grey. While I did not change my birth certificate, I did something as bad. A few years ago I entered a vocal competition that had an age limit that I BADLY wanted to enter. It had an age limit of 32 (I am a tenor, and actually, tenors don’t even come into their own until age 30–I have coached with a couple of prominent coaches who won’t even consider coaching a tenor until AFTER age 30 because the voice is not fully mature.

Anyway, as I said, I BADLY wanted to enter that vocal competition. What to do. My voice teacher told me to doctor my birth certificate (she later denied telling me that when she asked how I had “gotten in” being over the age limit).

I ordered a copy of my birth certificate and made a Xerox copy of it–in Pennsylvania, it says on the birth certificate “May Not Photocopy” so I had to cut out that border and Xerox several copies until I got a border that matched. I then proceeded to cut and paste. I took numbers off one of the birth certificate copies (so the “year” would match the typeset/print) and lined it all up nice and even and covered the “cut and paste” job with scotch tape neatly. (I would have made a HELL of a printer).

I then took the “doctored” copy and re-Xeroxed it neatly, making several copies. The year I picked was to make me two years YOUNGER than the limit so in case I didn’t make the finals this year (the year I doctored it) I could re-enter the following two years and hoped I would make the finals at least one of those years. As I said, I BADLY wanted to be in this particular vocal competition.

They bought it. I got my appointment and appeared on the date. While I got asked for three pieces, I had an argument with the accompanist with regard to an introduction for the third piece and did not make the finals. I have since learned that personality is also judged as well as the singing.

Unfortunately, that particular vocal competition decided they were not going to continue and so I did not get to enter the following year as I had planned to. In fact, I have never seen an ad for them since.

I commend the companies who do not have age limits. I have always felt deprived because by the time I was “vocally ready”, I was over the age limit for the Metropolitan Opera Competition AND the Luciano Pavarotti Competition, both of which I would have liked to have participated in. I would hope that classical singers would all get together to remedy this problem–one way would be to boycott all competitions with age limits.

Age discrimination is illegal in employment under Federal law, but between you and me, the companies are looking for youthful-looking singers which is fine except they shouldn’t discount the singer who is over 40–I didn’t even start training until age 29 so how could I have possibly been “vocally ready” by the age 32 limit.

I think a lot of singers may have started training late, like myself, and are into a “second” career situation–they may have gotten job burnout and turned to the arts, only to find these age limits. Most singers seem to get their start through winning a vocal competition.

Anyway, I commend you for taking on this controversial subject. I am sure it will not endear you to many of the companies who practice this age discrimination.

The beauty of the voice, not the age of the singer should be the first concern. The industry uses up young voices too quickly, and then stereotypes “older” artists as incapable of still having a fresh/young sound. A self perpetuating problem I think. I try to protect my young voices from taking on too much, too soon, or tackling repertoire beyond their reach, just because someone wants to pay them to do it. They don’t care about their future production possibilities (e.g. long term health of their voice) only their current production needs. integrity.

Lying about your age is rampant in competition applications etc. My belief is that sooner or later it will catch up with you and honesty is always the best policy.

Unfortunately all too often in our business integrity is hard to find, but to be cherished. I think this extends to the age issue as well.

I forgot to address one other issue, I would NOT recommend cosmetic surgery for the simple reason that it “tightens” the face and a singer needs to be “loose” not tight.

This is a sensitive topic with me. I believe that age discrimination IS illegal in the classical field in the U.S., but it has never been tested successfully. I remember many years ago (before the days of Ardis Kranik) a 42 year old guy tried to sue the Chicago Lyric over their entry level program, but the opera successfully claimed that he lacked the requisite vocal skills, and saw that he was blackballed throughout the industry. I think this would be the fate of any individual trying to do this. I think the only successful action would be a class-action suit against, say, the San Francisco Opera. Their apprentice programs carry specific age limits, even though they are clearly employment. Even if they were billed as educational opportunities age discrimination would be illegal. Lower voices are both at an advantage and a disadvantage here. Basses are known to be able to sing till they drop, and usually only get better with age. However, everyone still wants them to be under 30, which is ridiculous. For sopranos the problem is very difficult. It seems there is only one possible age for a promising soprano, and that is 27. If you don’t make it within two years of that age, you are in trouble.

If we only had a decent union! In Europe, of course, age discrimination is totally legal, and I was told in one audition that although they liked me very much, they couldn’t hire me on a Fest contract because they wanted someone under 30. I have seen singers reduced to tears when they are told by agents or by auditioners things like: “How dare you come here to sing for us at your age? No one can use anyone as old as you.” One agent told me, “Well it is a pleasure to hear someone whose age matches their voice. Those women who auditioned before you were old and ugly. No one wants anyone like that.”

Germans are obsessed by age anyway. It is asked at every turn. Even hotel registries ask for your age when checking in. It was required for me to get telephone, gas and electric service for my flat. It appeared on my rental agreement for my apartment and whenever I wanted to rent a car. It was required to apply for a BahnCard for discounts on the rail system. It got to be a joke with some of us. When ordering a hamburger at McDonalds, we would say: “What, you don’t want to know my birthdate?”

The German situation is acute in other situations. For example, the ability to start higher education virtually ceases at 35. You can’t get admission to most Universities if you are older. The idea of opportunities totally expiring as you get older doesn’t seem to bother the Germans one bit. I believe this relates to a whole complex of hierarchy in German life where age differences determine other social rankings. In most social encounters the older person has many prerogatives, so aging is not necessarily negatively valued for the society as a whole.

Given this situation, I would say that there are few singers working in Europe except the very youngest who have not fudged on their ages, and even altered documents to support the lower age. Agents sometimes council people to lie. Eventually if you do get hired, it is hard to avoid fessing up at the personnel office, however. Some opera business managers are discreet, but others blab to the world about the discrepancy between one’s real age and the age one claims. One mezzo I know was the victim of a colleague who sneaked a peak at her personnel file and then broadcast the information seemingly throughout Europe. Sadly Americans are now known to lie about their age, so everyone is on guard and kind of expects it.

In response to your questions on the age issues in opera, I would like to tell you of my experiences. I began singing in high school but because of family issues I was unable to pursue classical singing for a major part of my twenties. I began an undergraduate degree in voice at around the age of 26.

I had a lot of work to do but I asked my professors and colleagues if this was a realistic goal to pursue or if I should turn to something else. They all assured me that I had the talent and should give it a try. I was able to win several competitions, perform many leading roles and also participate in apprenticeship programs. All of this experience was in the Midwestern part of the United States. I was never able to find a teacher in that part of the country and so I was kind of flying blind with some vocal issues that needed attention.

My husband and I made the decision to go to the East coast to find a teacher and to be closer to audition sites. I have finally found a teacher and things are really coming together but I am now 34. I don’t look it, but there you are. I have discovered in my school experiences that there is a lot or prejudice about a singer’s age.

People think that by my age you should already have made it or there is nothing really there. They don’t realize that there are people out there with different stories, maybe you were a late bloomer or maybe there were reasons why you didn’t start until you are older. If I am a good singers, my age should not matter.

I try not to get discouraged and I try not to be tempted to lie. Many of my friends have had to alter their birth certificates to have the same chance of an impartial ear that a younger singer would get. I only hope that things will change and it will not take some kind of legal action to open some very closed minds.

I used to get so discouraged when I saw all of these amazing singers having incredible careers at such young ages. I felt that time was running out for me. Soon, after I gained some more experience, I found out that many singers were LYING about their ages! I was shocked! How awful for the younger singers never have realistic role models to look up to. It is like seeing a beautiful thin model in Vogue, feeling awful about your hips, then you find out -AIR BRUSHED!!!!

Then I experienced people asking me my age. I also do professional theatre, and I know from this experience that I’ve been quite hesitant about responding to any of the question/answer inquiries you put out, because I read in one of your issues a letter from a young lady who was chosen as a lead in an opera and because she was a mother of a young child she was dismissed. Not just dismissed she was terminated very rudely–and why because she dared accept a role in an opera being a mother. Your response to her was she shouldn’t have told the truth.

The one thing I am experiencing being a part of the opera world is that it seems to be okay to discriminate. There seems to be no exception to this. It seems that the people involved in the world of opera feel it is okay. The reason of which comes down to fear. The fear is real for each of us, and of course each of us must deal with their own ghost. So you have my reason for remaining anonymous.

I am however very interested in seeing the responses you get from your readers about age. It is something which happens to us all and in my case I have the blessing and GOD (giver or destiny) has provided me with the gift to look younger than my age. Believe me I’m enjoying it.

I made the declaration I would seek an opera career at the wonderful age of 46. I am finding that yes, whenever I sing whether that is for an audience or for an audition, I am expected to know more. It is expected that my level of performance would be that of a person of 20 years experience not 3 years. I’ve come to appreciate this challenge. It has been instrumental in having me be a lot more focused.

I was highly appreciative of the magazine because it provided me the opportunity to look for singing jobs. I am very disheartened that there are not more. Thank you so much for you effforts at keeping us aware of the jobs that are available. But I digress– I can’t really say, in my case, that the discrimination has been blatant when I’ve gone for auditions. I’ve not had anyone to tell me I wasn’t considered because of my age. But it is very hard for me to get the schooling I would like when a lot of the schools require you to be under a certain age before you can apply. I find it ironic Marilyn Horn has a school in California that will not accept students older than thirty-something, yet when she was in New York she was asked to sing and did so. I’m not saying she is not an accomplished singer by no means, quite the contrary. However when you’ve decided to block out a lot of students because of their age, wouldn’t you say that was hypocritical of her to perform?

As far as surgery, lying about your age, falsifying documents, I feel strongly these are private issues. I’ve never felt lying served me so I don’t do it, but I have lived long enough to know there are those among us that have gotten far with lying. Each person has to use their conscience of lack of conscience as the case may be.

Audience response to me has been the best. I feel sometimes the audience enjoys the older performers more than the younger. I’ve noticed that most of the audience is of the forty, fifty and older and I’m guessing they enjoy the older singer because they relate better.

I feel more opportunities are needed–equal access and consideration for training. Trying to squeeze so much talent in to so few places create the problems that are prevalent in this industry. I do realize expansion will create more, but I for one would love to risk it. I truly feel that the way opera is being needs a real change. Lucky for us we have people like you in our corner——–I hope.

I’ve been told to start lying about my age now (I’m 34) because everyone will assume you’re lying about your age anyway and add five years to whatever you tell them! I’m toying with the idea now.

My voice teacher, Awilda Verdejo, who is an incredible singer and who had a huge European career started her opera training at 32 years old. Jerome Hines sang well into his 80s, and Marian Anderson made her Met debut in her 60s. Phooey on those people who say you can’t start later in life!

I’m a strong believer that most voices mature in their 30s and peak in their 40s and 50s. With a firm technique and common sense about repertoire, you should be able to sing well into your 60s. Of course, with an unstable technique, you could be finished at 50. It all depends on how you treat your voice. I also firmly believe that you should be cast according to what you can sing, not how you look. And I strongly disagree with audition forms that ask the singer’s age! Can’t we somehow make this illegal?!?

OCTOBER: THE AGE ISSUE Here’s some questions to get you started, or you can simply add your own perspectives.

-Age discrimination is illegal–but not in the field of classical singing! Any thoughts on this?

Are you kidding?; Anyone who is pushing 30 (or over), is female and sings is lying if they say that they haven’t!!; How can you not think of it when all competitions, apprentice programs, schools require you to disclose your age.; There is an unspoken time line that singers are supposed to have accomplished and if you start late or get your act together later than post graduate age you can forget it.; “What you haven’t done an AGMA apprenticeship and you’re HOW old?; It’s as if singers are; considered a bad investment if you haven’t accomplished certain bench marks by certain ages i.e. graduate work, apprenticeships, regional roles and or winning particular high profile competitions.

-Have you noticed any difference in how too-young, or too-old singers are treated in various parts of the world?

When I was young I was always told to wait wait wait that “the Voice” wasn’t ready yet and now that I am ready I am over many of the age limits for things that I might be interested in.

-Have you been discriminated against, or seen age discrimination? -Are you worried about how getting older will affect your career?

Like sexual harassment it is sometimes hard to decipher when age discrimination is at work.; The hiring process is so much more subjective than say getting hired as an attorney that auditioners can always hide behind the “we just took the most talented singer” spiel. There is, however, this quiet fear and ever-present knowledge that younger is somehow better especially among women.;; For example at the festival I attended last summer 3 out of the 4 female apprentices were lying about their age.; The one that wasn’t was 23.

-Do you think singers should consider age-reduction cosmetic surgery?

No of course not, but; given the fact that these types of procedures are on the rise in our youth obsessed superficial culture I think that being young and beautiful has become a national obsession that is supported by the media.; I mean what would the beauty/cosmetic/diet industries do if women suddenly all became comfortable with the way we look and age and they lost all that extra revenue?!

Do you know anyone who has had this surgery done? If so, please ask them to go to the forum! -Music theater and popular singers think nothing of cosmetic procedures to keep looking young, thin and trim. Why do classical singers seem to avoid these ideas?

Because in opera the focus is on the voice.; Additionally I think that opera and classical singing reside outside the broad sphere of “popular culture” where the emphasis in casting is on whether or not you look believable in the role.; People who appreciate classical singing are more concerned with the voice than the image and are more willing to suspend disbelief when presented with an obese Violetta. The one big difference that I’ve noticed with musical theater is, although “the look” is much more important than in opera your chronological age is not as important.; If you look the part then all bets are off.; The questions are always does she look right? can she act ?; Can she sing?; Not how old is she really?; I have never been asked my real age at a musical theater call whereas I have never NOT been asked my real age at an opera audition.

-Do you have experience with singers lying about their age?

Yes

-Do you know anyone who changed their birth certificates, etc.?

No, but then why would they tell anyone especially another singer?

-Ever seen anyone ever been found out, that you know? -Have you noticed any difference in audience reaction to similar talent in older singers vs. younger singers?

Yes, the younger singers are given more leeway because they are considered “up and coming”.; The assumption is that they are full of untapped potential.; Older singers are viewed suspiciously i.e. why did they start so late?; What have they done in their 20’s?; The assumption is that they have already fulfilled their potential and they are not going to get any better so why bother. There is also the “prodigy” hangover, everyone would love to find that one perfect singer that looks 18 acts 35 sings like an angel at age 22.; That romantic dream that to be a virtuostic classical musician you must have been “touch by the hand of God” and learned the great operas on your mama’s knee.; “Great voices are born not made”; is a quote I remember from some where.; It’s as if it makes better copy to play into the 19th century romantic ideal of the jeune savant that just “opens her mouth and sings”; “Mama taught me everything I know” (Guess which popular mezzo-soprano comes to mind here).

-Ever seen anyone (particularly a woman) start a career late in life successfully?

No, only in musical theater character parts.

-Anyone you know sued for age discrimination?

Ha Ha?; And risk being :”black listed” not.

-Do you think it is legal to be asked your age on applications, or at auditions?

No of course not.; If your age range permits you to play the role that you are auditioning for then why does your chronological age matter?

What clever answers have you heard singers use to avoid answering?

I have never heard of anyone using “clever” answers for to do so would immediately draw attention to the fact that you are older (“Ah Ha, she must really be an old bat to put that down”); Mostly I think that if companies don’t ask for proof of age people simply lie.

-What do you consider to be the average age-range of professional singers with full-time careers? Is it different for men and women?

Yes

Why?

a) because there are fewer men than women; b) because women in entertainment generally have a hard time getting hired after 40; c) men have older age limits in competitions because it is widely accepted that it takes longer for their voices to develop; d) younger singers typically have less fiscal responsibilities and will work for less money.

I think the age issue is a real problem that needs a solution. There are people who would be considered over the hill for an opera career if you consider their chronological age, but their appearance does not reflect their age. If a person is 35 but looks 25, couldn’t it be that their vocal cords are also 25 if her skin, body etc. have matured slowly? Why should an age on an application be the sole indicator of whether a person should be considered for an audition or a role? There are a lot of good singers that started late and the opera world is missing out on them due to these ridiculous age restrictions. It also goes the other way because singers started out earlier in previous generations and now the youngest singers who may be ready for a career are held back in the conservatory from singing heavy repertoire or starting a professional career. People are always complaining “where are the big and good voices?” What is the point of narrowing the age range in a situation like this? There are people that are being eliminated from being heard (both those “too old” and those “too young”) who might be one of these great voices.

I have known some people who have reinvented themselves, changed names, etc. to get around the age issue. Why should we have to do this? I say lift the age restrictions, let everyone be honest about who they are and just work with what you get.

Thank you so much for your e-mail communication. The age question is a thick one; perhaps much of the emphasis on youth in the music business is unavoidable in this particular culture (a culture which, for better or worse, is emulated all over the world). It also seems (as in the case of young artists’ programs) to be a function (perhaps legitimate) of the demand for performers who promise many years of return for the great investment necessary to start a career.

Sexism dictates that it is women who feel the brunt of chrono-phobia, as women are afforded less respect in general. I, for one, would be happy to see age limits abolished on most competitions and audition questionnaires. I think most thoughtful artists realize that artistic mastery, expressivity and subtlety tend to deepen with age, except in very rare cases, such as the poet Rimbaud, for example. On the other hand, equal-opportunity employment policies have no place in the arts, which are the provenance of the gifted, not the average.

A conductor of my acquaintance says that the obsession with youth in the music industry is reaching ever more absurd proportions. It is not limited to singers; all musicians suffer from this prejudice. Violinists after the age of twenty years are considered old. It reminds me of the old-fashioned view of young women “past their prime,” “condemmned” to spinsterhood. Perhaps this youth-hysteria in the arts is the result of some deep-seated collective fear as we approach the millennium.